|
|
Post by CoUrTnEy on May 4, 2004 20:28:24 GMT -5
 hmmm. i see.. well me personally- let them make it a holiday as long as i am not forced to celebrate it.. makes me no nevermind 
|
|
|
|
Post by LadyC on May 4, 2004 20:29:34 GMT -5
kah, actually christmas was a pagan holiday that was adopted by christians. many of the "christmas traditions" used during the season by christians are pagan in origion... including the tree, the holly, the mistletoe, etc. etc. do your fact-finding! non-christians have celebrated the christmas season from the beginning of it's inception as a "christian" holiday... and BEFORE christians ever adopted it. why did christians aadopt it? because they couldn't do away with the origional holiday which was referred to as winter solstice, so they decided to celebrate during that time as well, only to apply their own reason for celebrating it.
courtney, thank you. ramadan is an islamic holiday celebrated during the "christmas" season... which as i've just described, is actually a holiday season in which many religions celebrate their own religious beliefs. jews celebrate hannukah during that season as well. the official term for the season is the christian name for the season, probably because of our founding fathers... i'm not sure when the term "christmas" became the federally recognized name for the season. however, the season itself is a TIME in which many other religions celebrate the roots of their faith.
|
|
|
|
Post by kAHANyAH on May 4, 2004 20:29:38 GMT -5
LadyC, let me explain something to you. And this is from a seasoned veteran of the board. THERE IS NO LIABILITY HERE. IF YOU STICK AROUND LONG ENUF YOU WILL SEE EVERY ONE HAS THEIR OWN POINT OF VIEW AND EVERYONE BE AT IT WITH SOMEONE HERE. Just look at me and Courtney Luv. We got nothin but love here sis and we enjoy your company. Do not leave on the count of disagreeing views. By all means, stick firm to your guns or as we say in the GHETTO - SPIT YO FIRE AND VENOM ! |
|
|
|
Post by kAHANyAH on May 4, 2004 20:31:10 GMT -5
Auugghhh!! my point LadyC , Christmas is historically a religious holy day (be it pagan or whathave you). kah, actually christmas was a pagan holiday that was adopted by christians. many of the "christmas traditions" used during the season by christians are pagan in origion... including the tree, the holly, the mistletoe, etc. etc. do your fact-finding! non-christians have celebrated the christmas season from the beginning of it's inception as a "christian" holiday... and BEFORE christians ever adopted it. why did christians aadopt it? because they couldn't do away with the origional holiday which was referred to as winter solstice, so they decided to celebrate during that time as well, only to apply their own reason for celebrating it. courtney, thank you. ramadan is an islamic holiday celebrated during the "christmas" season... which as i've just described, is actually a holiday season in which many religions celebrate their own religious beliefs. jews celebrate hannukah during that season as well. the official term for the season is the christian name for the season, probably because of our founding fathers... i'm not sure when the term "christmas" became the federally recognized name for the season. however, the season itself is a TIME in which many other religions celebrate the roots of their faith. |
|
|
|
Post by LadyC on May 4, 2004 20:35:40 GMT -5
weak? with the possible exception of leviticus 20 (i'll have to look that one up), all of the passages you quoted were regarding battle with those trying to destroy God's people. they were not scriptures condoning God's people going out and murdering individuals based on their religious beliefs. so if my arguments are weak, yours are senseless. kah, like i said, we will have to just agree to disagree on this issue. if you want to continue arguing in favor of a religion that specifically commands its followers to kill jews and christians, argue with the wall or something. i don't have the sweet tooth for your sugar-coating! i'll bow out of this discussion now. sorry i brought it up. Oh come on now! LadyC, this is weak! weak!! Im sorry I aint suga coating. You wanna talk about Holy writ ? You wanna quote passages ? I am very verse in BIBLE LIT! Lets take it to the court! Digest these holy "bible" writs, Isa 13:18 [Their] bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children. Deu 7:2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, [and] utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them: Lev 20:2 Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever [he be] of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth [any] of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones. There a hundreds of examples but I dont wanna overwhelm you. That tactic is played our sistah. All holy txt. got them blood, vengeance shizzle in them.  |
|
|
|
Post by kAHANyAH on May 4, 2004 20:42:36 GMT -5
not so fast. The scripture which u say involved battles with enemies. Why did God command them to kill the children, and the unborn ? Isa 13:18 [Their] bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children.  weak? with the possible exception of leviticus 20 (i'll have to look that one up), all of the passages you quoted were regarding battle with those trying to destroy God's people. they were not scriptures condoning God's people going out and murdering individuals based on their religious beliefs. so if my arguments are weak, yours are senseless. kah, like i said, we will have to just agree to disagree on this issue. if you want to continue arguing in favor of a religion that specifically commands its followers to kill jews and christians, argue with the wall or something. i don't have the sweet tooth for your sugar-coating! i'll bow out of this discussion now. sorry i brought it up. |
|
|
|
Post by LadyC on May 4, 2004 22:09:23 GMT -5
of all the battles in the Bible, this is the only one in which they were commanded to kill even the women and children and sheep that i can recall. i've got a "date" to watch a movie with my daughter right now, so i'll ask you to review the story and tell me if i'm remembering correctly or not (and i'll doublecheck later).
as the story goes, if i'm remembering right, they didn't do as commanded. they ended up taking some of the women and children as their own. the society with whom they had battled was so denegrated with immorality that it "infected" even the children, and brought all manner of havoc on God's people as a result.
so the answer would be because God, in his infinite wisdom and foresite, saw what would become of His people if they took the women and children as spoilage from the war, and instructed them to destroy them all.
as for the sheep, beats me. i suppose that God was forbidding them ALL spoils of this particular war, instead of just limiting the prohibition to the women and children.
isaiah huh? i was thinking this story was in deuteronomy or somewhere before isaiah.
|
|
|
|
Post by kAHANyAH on May 5, 2004 3:53:52 GMT -5
LadyC, why did God command the unborn and little children killed ? Here is the scripture again... Isa 13:18 [Their] bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children. Oh! before I forget. That aint the only one. You know Elisha, well that prophet had 42 children slaughtered just because they called him "bald head"  of all the battles in the Bible, this is the only one in which they were commanded to kill even the women and children and sheep that i can recall. i've got a "date" to watch a movie with my daughter right now, so i'll ask you to review the story and tell me if i'm remembering correctly or not (and i'll doublecheck later). as the story goes, if i'm remembering right, they didn't do as commanded. they ended up taking some of the women and children as their own. the society with whom they had battled was so denegrated with immorality that it "infected" even the children, and brought all manner of havoc on God's people as a result. so the answer would be because God, in his infinite wisdom and foresite, saw what would become of His people if they took the women and children as spoilage from the war, and instructed them to destroy them all. as for the sheep, beats me. i suppose that God was forbidding them ALL spoils of this particular war, instead of just limiting the prohibition to the women and children. isaiah huh? i was thinking this story was in deuteronomy or somewhere before isaiah. |
|
|
|
Post by CoUrTnEy on May 5, 2004 8:29:18 GMT -5
oh my! hey could you give me a scripture reference for that story- i would like to read it for myself. you know i dont always agree with your interpretations kah  Oh! before I forget. That aint the only one. You know Elisha, well that prophet had 42 children slaughtered just because they called him "bald head"
|
|
|
|
Post by kAHANyAH on May 5, 2004 8:43:47 GMT -5
sure. Here it is... 2Ki 2:23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 2Ki 2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. That elisha aint got no luvs for jerry's kidz ! oh my! hey could you give me a scripture reference for that story- i would like to read it for myself. you know i dont always agree with your interpretations kah |
|
|
|
Post by CoUrTnEy on May 5, 2004 9:01:56 GMT -5
ok i saw it for myself.. and i wasnt all that familiar with elijah so i looked him up. this is what i found:
also spelled Elias, or Elia, Hebrew Eliyyahu Hebrew prophet who ranks with Moses in saving the religion of Yahweh from being corrupted by the nature worship of Baal. Elijah's name means “Yahweh is my God” and is spelled Elias in some versions of the Bible. The story of his prophetic career in the northern kingdom of Israel during the reigns of Kings Ahab and Ahaziah is told in 1 Kings 17–19 and 2 Kings 1–2 in the Old Testament. …
so tare means to kill them? this is what i found for the definition of tare:
1 : a deduction from the gross weight of a substance and its container made in allowance for the weight of the container; also : the weight of the container
2 : COUNTERWEIGHT
and
1: to ascertain or mark the tare of; especially : to weigh so as to determine the tare
I can see that he cursed them for mocking him, which of course isnt something children should be doing.. im still trying to figure out where it says he had them killed.. not that i doubt what you are saying but im having a hard time seeing it.
|
|
|
|
Post by kAHANyAH on May 5, 2004 9:12:19 GMT -5
oh lord have mercy on yo soul! COurtney!! Augghh!! tare is an old spelling for "tear" which means to rip open ! to slash! for crying out loud Courtney luv ever seen what a she bear does ? MAULS YOU! Gurl if you still tryin to rationalize this evident *brutality* of a prophet of God. Let me give ya the hebrew word. The word is Baqi which means 1) to split, cleave, break open, divide, break through, rip up, break up, tear. And if you still skeptical here is the english break down of the archaic spelling of "tare" - tare Tear \Tear\ (t[^a]r), v. t. [imp. Tore (t[=o]r), ((Obs. Tare) (t[^a]r); p. p. Torn (t[=o]rn); p. pr. & vb. n. Tearing.] [OE. teren, AS. teran; akin to OS. farterian to destroy, D. teren to consume, G. zerren to pull, to tear, zehren to consume, Icel. t[ae]ra, Goth. gata['i]ran to destroy, Lith. dirti to flay, Russ. drate to pull, to tear, Gr. de`rein to flay, Skr. dar to burst. [root]63. Cf. Darn, Epidermis, Tarre, Tirade.] 1. To separate by violence; to pull apart by force; to rend; to lacerate; as, to tear cloth; to tear a garment; to tear the skin or flesh. Tear him to pieces; he's a conspirator. --Shak. dictionary.reference.com/search?q=tare ok i saw it for myself.. and i wasnt all that familiar with elijah so i looked him up. this is what i found: also spelled Elias, or Elia, Hebrew Eliyyahu Hebrew prophet who ranks with Moses in saving the religion of Yahweh from being corrupted by the nature worship of Baal. Elijah's name means “Yahweh is my God” and is spelled Elias in some versions of the Bible. The story of his prophetic career in the northern kingdom of Israel during the reigns of Kings Ahab and Ahaziah is told in 1 Kings 17–19 and 2 Kings 1–2 in the Old Testament. …so tare means to kill them? this is what i found for the definition of tare: 1 : a deduction from the gross weight of a substance and its container made in allowance for the weight of the container; also : the weight of the container
2 : COUNTERWEIGHT and 1: to ascertain or mark the tare of; especially : to weigh so as to determine the tare I can see that he cursed them for mocking him, which of course isnt something children should be doing.. im still trying to figure out where it says he had them killed.. not that i doubt what you are saying but im having a hard time seeing it. |
|
|
|
Post by CoUrTnEy on May 5, 2004 9:20:27 GMT -5
no dear i just couldnt find any other definition for it, but i see what you've posted.. just tryin to make sure i agree with your interpretation.. i first wanted to understand who elijah was in relation to christianity.. hey wasnt he the guy that was brought up in a chariot (while he was still alive) and walked with God?? and then i wanted to look at the scripture. It is indeed an act of brutality.. kids can be mean, and deserved to be corrected/punished for being mean and disrespectful, but killing them seems a little harsh.. just as Christianity as a whole shouldnt be judged for this one man's act, neither should islam. I would need a deeper understanding of muslim doctrine before i could make a more clear statement of whether i think it is wrong/bad/etc.. at this time i know very little.. i think just about every major religion has some sort of violence involved in their "cause" at some point.. all religions have radicals that make the rest of the religion look bad.. i try to go by this statement "judge not lest ye be judged".. i can only do what is right for me and my family, what everyone else does is between them and God. Just like a nuwaubian man that is a very dear friend of mine- he knows how i feel about York and his misdeeds.. but i dont harp on him.. i give my opinion and move on.. oh lord have mercy on yo soul! COurtney!! Augghh!! tare is an old spelling for "tear" which means to rip open ! to slash! for crying out loud Courtney luv ever seen what a she bear does ? MAULS YOU! Gurl if you still tryin to rationalize this evident *brutality* of a prophet of God. Let me give ya the hebrew word. The word is Baqi which means 1) to split, cleave, break open, divide, break through, rip up, break up, tear. And if you still skeptical here is the english break down of the archaic spelling of "tare" - tare Tear \Tear\ (t[^a]r), v. t. [imp. Tore (t[=o]r), ((Obs. Tare) (t[^a]r); p. p. Torn (t[=o]rn); p. pr. & vb. n. Tearing.] [OE. teren, AS. teran; akin to OS. farterian to destroy, D. teren to consume, G. zerren to pull, to tear, zehren to consume, Icel. t[ae]ra, Goth. gata['i]ran to destroy, Lith. dirti to flay, Russ. drate to pull, to tear, Gr. de`rein to flay, Skr. dar to burst. [root]63. Cf. Darn, Epidermis, Tarre, Tirade.] 1. To separate by violence; to pull apart by force; to rend; to lacerate; as, to tear cloth; to tear a garment; to tear the skin or flesh. Tear him to pieces; he's a conspirator. --Shak. |
|
|
|
Post by kAHANyAH on May 5, 2004 9:22:58 GMT -5
perfectly stated!!! there is radicalized concept in all holy writings. This is the point I wanted to convey to LadyC. What she finds in the islamic holy word can also be found in the christian holy word. no dear i just couldnt find any other definition for it, but i see what you've posted.. just tryin to make sure i agree with your interpretation.. i first wanted to understand who elijah was in relation to christianity.. hey wasnt he the guy that was brought up in a chariot (while he was still alive) and walked with God?? and then i wanted to look at the scripture. It is indeed an act of brutality.. kids can be mean, and deserved to be corrected/punished for being mean and disrespectful, but killing them seems a little harsh.. just as Christianity as a whole shouldnt be judged for this one man's act, neither should islam. I would need a deeper understanding of muslim doctrine before i could make a more clear statement of whether i think it is wrong/bad/etc.. at this time i know very little.. i think just about every major religion has some sort of violence involved in their "cause" at some point.. all religions have radicals that make the rest of the religion look bad.. i try to go by this statement "judge not lest ye be judged".. i can only do what is right for me and my family, what everyone else does is between them and God. Just like a nuwaubian man that is a very dear friend of mine- he knows how i feel about York and his misdeeds.. but i dont harp on him.. i give my opinion and move on.. |
|
|
|
Post by CoUrTnEy on May 5, 2004 9:32:05 GMT -5
hmmm. interesting side note- i just looked at the link you gave for that definition. look at this definition of tares: 1.Any of various weedy plants of the genus Vicia, especially the common vetch.
2.Any of several weedy plants that grow in grain fields.
3.tares An unwelcome or objectional element. Tare has a recurring theme in looking at the definitions- violence.. but when i read that other definition that i posted above i had an epiphany.. perhaps in "cursing" them the statement "And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them." was not what he did but what he said as he was cursing them.. calling them "weeds" or a "bad/objectional element" and not necessarily killing them at all.. Please understand im not sure which is right.. but just playin devil's advocate And dont think i deny there is violence in Christianity's past either. |
|
