Prosecution Evidence Irregularities

[SatiyaH]

Ralph said:

They would have to bound and gag me like Hannibal Lecture. Wish I had a picture!!

What about this Ralph:

The Judge ordered Bobby Seal be bound and gagged in court! And York whimpers about motions getting denied, so pussified.

It was York's choice. I posted under "York trial". York's own attorney, Adrian Patrick stated near the end of the trial that it would be a "game day decision" about York taking the stand. It is every defendants right to take the stand in their own defense. York had to verbally deny that right in court--it was recorded and acknowledged. Nuwaubians stated that they (court) would not allow York to testify--but that was utter bullshit, as usual, coming from their 'camp'.

[ELTRUTH]

chephren said:

The reality remains the Government spent a tremendous amount of money to gather the conviction and have made mistakes in there prosecution that is true....This does not merit or support York's lifestyle actions so my question to staunch Nuwaubians is this . "At what point does York take responsibility for his actions that led to incarceration"? York definitely made HUGE errors in judgment that has cost him dearly...To support your statement Faithful Nuwaupian if these "sellouts" in York's inner circle and "Black Devils" were close enough to BETRAY The Master Teacher could not his barathary gland through psychic self defense spare him this MASSIVE humiliation?

i totally agree with that- when will he take responisbilty for HIS actions? had the 'feds' not make any mistake- that they claim- would he have been honset enough to say i did it and move on? would he have ever quit? would he have EVER come to a parent and tell them the truth?' the only reason your near me is becasue i have having sex with all of your kids'! or admited to how he likes to by CERTAIN types of icey pops and WATCH the kids eat them so he can PLOT on his next VICTIM? or see which ones are more 'loyal' to him and what extent will they go to prove there loyalty?the same PREGNANT TEENAGER the defese had as a witnesses is the SAME girl who HELPED one of the victims ESCAPE from the land!he doesnt give a DAMN about the mental welbeing of those around him - if so he would have let those who got arrested with him tell the TRUTH from the beginging and spare them- becasue they are JUST as much a victim as the other people-even kathy was 18 when she came around doc in brooklyn- she wasnt into all that stuff before he PUT HER IN IT!and he had TEENAGE and PREGNANT wives as far back as BROOKLYN! even a daughter that was concieved out of him raping her 15 year old mother!and she isnt the only one- how old was his son yisreal- (the OTHER dwight york) mother when she got pregnant? ASK his OLDER kids they will tell u - u want proof ASK his older kids HOW OLD was some of their mothers when they got pregnant- not to mention what about those GUILTY charges from the 60's from statatury RAPE!?!?! no one is touching that with a 10 foot pole!

[kgod999]

i hated to see the truth too, man, i cant even listen to my tapes no more without going, damn, doc, what the hell, leaves me speechless, but coming to this forum validated a lot of questions i had about nuwabians. i told a story on another forum about how some nuwabians i helped get a job at the post office in athens paid me back by trying to talk to my mate on the job! this was in 1996. i was so embarrased because i took a lot of heat for reading the books at work during lunch and breaks and always defending york and the books because people said they were devils, and them fools i helped pulled that shit. even tried to pick a fight with me about it. it was so bad that abbey who was helping run the original bookstore in athens at the time wanted me to call york about it but i let it slide. i knew some shady stuff was going on because the way nuwabians i met would be all secretive and talk about the green room up in brooklyn where they had orgies, and got mad when one of the cats told me about yorks many wives, which i really didnt care about. anyway, im sticking with the doctrine, but have reservations about anything else. Lastly, if anyone didnt think he was gonna be found guilty they crazy. All they(the prosecutor and judge) had to do is pass the book around 'THE PALEMAN' and it was over. aint no way them white folks letting you talk about them like that and dont put u away like they did york. amazing that he would write books that bold and be going around setting himself up like that, damn, im speechless.

[Master-9]

kgod999 said:

i hated to see the truth too, man, i cant even listen to my tapes no more without going, damn, doc, what the hell, leaves me speechless, but coming to this forum validated a lot of questions i had about nuwabians. i told a story on another forum about how some nuwabians i helped get a job at the post office in athens paid me back by trying to talk to my mate on the job! this was in 1996. i was so embarrased because i took a lot of heat for reading the books at work during lunch and breaks and always defending york and the books because people said they were devils, and them fools i helped pulled that shit. even tried to pick a fight with me about it. it was so bad that abbey who was helping run the original bookstore in athens at the time wanted me to call york about it but i let it slide. i knew some shady stuff was going on because the way nuwabians i met would be all secretive and talk about the green room up in brooklyn where they had orgies, and got mad when one of the cats told me about yorks many wives, which i really didnt care about. anyway, im sticking with the doctrine, but have reservations about anything else. Lastly, if anyone didnt think he was gonna be found guilty they crazy. All they(the prosecutor and judge) had to do is pass the book around 'THE PALEMAN' and it was over. aint no way them white folks letting you talk about them like that and dont put u away like they did york. amazing that he would write books that bold and be going around setting himself up like that, damn, im speechless.

I remember youir post on that site(Yahoo), but anyway you answer your own question....."aint no way them white folks letting you talk about them like that and dont put u away like they did york. amazing that he would write books that bold and be going around setting himself up like that, damn, im speechless" The answer is he didn't do it....damn yall turn on ya own so fast(Reminds me of the story of Jesus)!

[ELTRUTH]

kgod999 said:

i hated to see the truth too, man, i cant even listen to my tapes no more without going, damn, doc, what the hell, leaves me speechless, but coming to this forum validated a lot of questions i had about nuwabians. i told a story on another forum about how some nuwabians i helped get a job at the post office in athens paid me back by trying to talk to my mate on the job! this was in 1996. i was so embarrased because i took a lot of heat for reading the books at work during lunch and breaks and always defending york and the books because people said they were devils, and them fools i helped pulled that shit. even tried to pick a fight with me about it. it was so bad that abbey who was helping run the original bookstore in athens at the time wanted me to call york about it but i let it slide. i knew some shady stuff was going on because the way nuwabians i met would be all secretive and talk about the green room up in brooklyn where they had orgies, and got mad when one of the cats told me about yorks many wives, which i really didnt care about. anyway, im sticking with the doctrine, but have reservations about anything else. Lastly, if anyone didnt think he was gonna be found guilty they crazy. All they(the prosecutor and judge) had to do is pass the book around 'THE PALEMAN' and it was over. aint no way them white folks letting you talk about them like that and dont put u away like they did york. amazing that he would write books that bold and be going around setting himself up like that, damn, im speechless.

there is nothing wrong with u wanting to hold on to the 'doctirine' if that is what u need in your life and helped uplift your sould and spirit - thats your thing- besides its not 'his doctrine' but a compilation of plagersim of OTHER peoples doctrine with his own TWIST. the TRUTH is many times he came to the publications department with a new book or movie and would have everyone read it- and put it in their won words take out god and change it to anu or allah or elohim - what ever diety that was being used at the time- and put it out as his 'devine revalations'! then he would say check it out and if people brought back the 'white mans books' he would say they coppied it from him- but it was the OTHER way around- words he 'made up' like overstand- its an old RASTAFERIAN term, and his 'saying' i came giving u what u want - so u would want what i have to give' its sia baba and someone posted that on an earlier thread. if u take a look at the small series of books that came out during 1993- when he first moved to tamare- more than 1/2 the boosk was adds or was alot of 'fluff' becasue he wanted to SELL books and items - he didnt give a DAMN about the doctirne. the reson why he hates bilall phillips is becasue he along with other old timmers like RAHIL HARRIS (doc witness) father sadiq helped EXPOSE way back in brooklyn that he was a fake www.bilalphilips.com/books/ansar01a.htm
and it talked about the men and women of the ccummunity and their hedthenistic behaviors. i dont doubt one minute them brothers was trying to get with you wife- thats how it was in their- if u would have moved on the land and your wife was HALF wasy decent - he would have went after her also. many happly married couples- espcially the young ones- go on the land - seem to some how 'break up' there no matter how long they have been together- and 'some how' doc just 'happens' to pick up the 'pieces' when he was 'recrutiing' for the office and would look at the tab cards- he wasnt looking at skills that a women can offer the office- he was looking at who is preety who is not- who maybe easier to get- who dont have alot of kids- thats why on kodesh there was even a 'weight' limit to move up there - he doesnt like fat people.there was a sister who had a real pretty face and he moved her up there - found out she was fat- and put her out! more than HALF of his list of 'witnesses' are women he is or has slept with - including the married people there, or people who has kids by him so OF COURSE they will be biased and have a MOTIVE to lie for him!

[kAHANyAH]

damnn! have all the chics on tama re slept with MZY ? . Speaks alot about these women though .

[SatiyaH]

kAH said:

damnn! have all the chics on tama re slept with MZY ? . Speaks alot about these women though .

If you were a woman, and was not permitted to sleep in the same house as your mate, let alone the same bed--you might eventually give in too! If you were a woman who was offered a chance to be with the "leader" as opposed to your "mate" who slept in a barn--you may pick the "Alpha male".
If you were a woman who was not even permitted to socialize openly with other men, and someone came to you and said "Doc wants you"--you just may give into that urge!
I suppose you didn't realize that some of the children concieved on Tamare that were not Yorks were called "bush babies" because they knew in order for that woman to get pregnant by her own mate/husband she had to sneak into the bushes! Some women kept their honor. For some, they accepted being one of his concubines--it was culturally instilled upon them at an early age. Some were just "home grown pussy", born and raised for the purpose of being York's sexual toy. He "hand picked" the freshest Georgia peaches. He said that out of his own mouth the summer of 1998. I had no idea what he was talking about at the time. Now I do. It was a "Jerry Springer" night and the topic came up regarding the group of men who left Tamare after accusing York of sleeping not only with other people's mates, but with the young girls. His very own words were quite descriptive, yet at the same time vague. He told a story about having a basket and going up to peach trees. Plucking the freshest, ripest peaches and putting them in the basket. He said, if a brother was smart--he'd walk right beside him and the ones the didn't pick off the tree or the ones he tossed on the ground because they were a little bruised that brother would pick up! Disgusting! I looked around at some brothers who smiled. I saw many more who looked at each other as if to ask "is he talking about what I think he's talking about?" Yet, nobody dared question him about it!
Kah--there is such a thing as mental abuse. When you do certain things to a person, and in this case I will say a woman you can strip away any self esteem they may have once had. York clothed these women from head to toe, veil and all. Nobody could see their outer beauty, and no brother could get close enough to learn her inner beauty. He would "mate" people up. Send a man or woman to this Tabernacle or that Tabernacle with the sole purpose of becomming someone's mate.
Once the veils were taken off, you had a bunch of un-permed hair on women who suddenly became very self concious. If they had bad teeth--now everyone knew and they had not learned to deal with it. If they were ugly--now the whole world suddenly knew! Ohhhhh, that's what so and so looks like!

Now the veils were off. The women were learning social skills to deal with mean leering at them. Within a short time, York decided to have them whack off their hair--a long held symbol of women's beauty. They were shaved down as short as men, save a single braid he declared was a braid of Ninti (how would he know). He even admitted it was a marketing gimick. He told the women in the office "watch how quickly the other women will start wearing their hair like that without even knowing why". Women would ask them "why do you just have one piece of hair sticking out" They wouldn't tell those not living there...sure enough, you'd see other women doing it! As that piece grew, he decided to have them buy "ninti beads" for 5 bucks a piece, and made it a REQUIREMENT. Pathetic. I could go on and on and on...but by now you should see the game. If not, you never will.

[kAHANyAH]

If I were a woman with my personality , NO I WOULDN'T under any of those circumstances. SatiyaH, I aint buying that excuse. Dealing with the molestation aspect of it, he is dead wrong but other then that I don't think any of the ladies who've slept with MZY is in a moral position to pass judgments on him. They too were a part of the sexcapades and promiscuity going on on the land. Hell, if the young gurls were witnessing this indecency then one can argue these adult women are partially to blame for what happened to those kids. And the men aint no better. I'd say a bunch of cowards were they, knowing their wives and wives of other men sleeping wit this kat and not confront him on it ?


LOTS OF BLAME TO GO AROUND. MZY AINT THE ONLY ONE CULPABLE.

SatiyaH said:

If you were a woman, and was not permitted to sleep in the same house as your mate, let alone the same bed--you might eventually give in too! If you were a woman who was offered a chance to be with the "leader" as opposed to your "mate" who slept in a barn--you may pick the "Alpha male".
If you were a woman who was not even permitted to socialize openly with other men, and someone came to you and said "Doc wants you"--you just may give into that urge!
I suppose you didn't realize that some of the children concieved on Tamare that were not Yorks were called "bush babies" because they knew in order for that woman to get pregnant by her own mate/husband she had to sneak into the bushes! Some women kept their honor. For some, they accepted being one of his concubines--it was culturally instilled upon them at an early age. Some were just "home grown pussy", born and raised for the purpose of being York's sexual toy. He "hand picked" the freshest Georgia peaches. He said that out of his own mouth the summer of 1998. I had no idea what he was talking about at the time. Now I do. It was a "Jerry Springer" night and the topic came up regarding the group of men who left Tamare after accusing York of sleeping not only with other people's mates, but with the young girls. His very own words were quite descriptive, yet at the same time vague. He told a story about having a basket and going up to peach trees. Plucking the freshest, ripest peaches and putting them in the basket. He said, if a brother was smart--he'd walk right beside him and the ones the didn't pick off the tree or the ones he tossed on the ground because they were a little bruised that brother would pick up! Disgusting! I looked around at some brothers who smiled. I saw many more who looked at each other as if to ask "is he talking about what I think he's talking about?" Yet, nobody dared question him about it!
Kah--there is such a thing as mental abuse. When you do certain things to a person, and in this case I will say a woman you can strip away any self esteem they may have once had. York clothed these women from head to toe, veil and all. Nobody could see their outer beauty, and no brother could get close enough to learn her inner beauty. He would "mate" people up. Send a man or woman to this Tabernacle or that Tabernacle with the sole purpose of becomming someone's mate.
Once the veils were taken off, you had a bunch of un-permed hair on women who suddenly became very self concious. If they had bad teeth--now everyone knew and they had not learned to deal with it. If they were ugly--now the whole world suddenly knew! Ohhhhh, that's what so and so looks like!

Now the veils were off. The women were learning social skills to deal with mean leering at them. Within a short time, York decided to have them whack off their hair--a long held symbol of women's beauty. They were shaved down as short as men, save a single braid he declared was a braid of Ninti (how would he know). He even admitted it was a marketing gimick. He told the women in the office "watch how quickly the other women will start wearing their hair like that without even knowing why". Women would ask them "why do you just have one piece of hair sticking out" They wouldn't tell those not living there...sure enough, you'd see other women doing it! As that piece grew, he decided to have them buy "ninti beads" for 5 bucks a piece, and made it a REQUIREMENT. Pathetic. I could go on and on and on...but by now you should see the game. If not, you never will.

[CoUrTnEy]

I have to say I agree with both Kah and Satiyah- sortof.. let me explain.. I agree that when people are abused and brainwashed (or stripped of their self esteem) that to a certain degree this abused person can be bent to someone else's will .. but at some point that person has to wake up, stand up, and stand up for themselves.. I heard a saying once, "People only do you what you ALLOW them to do." At some point you have to take responsibility for what you have done or allowed to be done to you- regardless of what got you to that point in the first place. I came from a physically and mentally abusive relationship of almost 6 yrs.. I do take a portion of the blame because after the first or second time he hit me I didnt leave. I was an adult and I had the ability to leave if i wanted to.. he didnt threaten me with death or anything. I was just young and scared. But one day it just came to me- i could keep letting life happen to me or I could take back my life.. I DO NOT think it was ok for York to abuse his "power" to sex all those women, however, I also do not think that it was ok for those women to sleep with him because they were separated from their own mate.. or because he was the supposed "savior".. To me.. that would've raised a red flag- why would such a holy, righteous man if he is indeed so, sleep with many women? I dont care how you tried to explain it to me- it wouldn't have chimed right- in my head. Or separating me from my family and friends- another red flag. You would have to kill me dead- to separate my family and me. Like Kah said, there was a lot of blame to spread around for what happened.. with the exception of the children- they never had a choice. Kah mentioned the children seeing the women behave that way and made them think that behavior was ok.. I fully believe that we as parents have to watch every move we make because we are our children's FIRST and most important role model. We have to be doubly sure that our behavior demonstrates what we expect from our children.. and if you dont set up a good guide to follow then you are partially to blame. And the men- how could you put your wives out there to allow something like that to go on??

One last thing.. i keep hearing the arguement from other nuwaubians that 17 is legal age of consent in some places.. that may be so.. but truly how mature is the average 17 yr old?? not very.. and what could a man of his age possibly have in common with a child of 17?? NOt a damn thing.. and so WHAT if that 17 yr old had slept with other boys?? York was just as wrong for condoning that behavior.

kAH said:

If I were a woman with my personality , NO I WOULDN'T under any of those circumstances. SatiyaH, I aint buying that excuse. Dealing with the molestation aspect of it, he is dead wrong but other then that I don't think any of the ladies who've slept with MZY is in a moral position to pass judgments on him. They too were a part of the sexcapades and promiscuity going on on the land. Hell, if the young gurls were witnessing this indecency then one can argue these adult women are partially to blame for what happened to those kids. And the men aint no better. I'd say a bunch of cowards were they, knowing their wives and wives of other men sleeping wit this kat and not confront him on it ?


LOTS OF BLAME TO GO AROUND. MZY AINT THE ONLY ONE CULPABLE.

[kAHANyAH]

This is from my own personal experience . I was part of a spiritual/revolutionary/radical movement in my late teens to early 20s. What irked me the most while a member of the organization was seeing men lose their women, wives and mates to the high officials. And it wasn't because there was a seperation between the mates. It was due to these women having succumbed to the looks and appeal of grandeur and high stature these officials held. In plain english, these women were LUSTING AFTER THE POWER. Of course man will be man (dawgs). These higher ups knew it and played on it.

Now you have young impressionable kids in an environment like this (especially teen age girls) ? That aint no place to be raising children. And another thing, something I've been pondering on for quite some time... HOW IN THE WORLD THE PEEPS LIVING ON THE LAND AINT KNOW THE LITTLE CHILDREN WERE BEING MOLESTED ? I DONT BUY IT! . You know what I think, I think there are MANY! in denial and don't wanna fess up to them contributing to that shit indirectly (by keeping your mouth shut).

There is an OLD SAYIN... LIKE BEGETS LIKE.

I know I was harsh but IM sorry, the more i've pondered on this since the case was closed the more I begin to realize --- THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY IS GUILTY!

sorry if I offended any

courtney said:

I have to say I agree with both Kah and Satiyah- sortof.. let me explain.. I agree that when people are abused and brainwashed (or stripped of their self esteem) that to a certain degree this abused person can be bent to someone else's will .. but at some point that person has to wake up, stand up, and stand up for themselves.. I heard a saying once, "People only do you what you ALLOW them to do." At some point you have to take responsibility for what you have done or allowed to be done to you- regardless of what got you to that point in the first place. I came from a physically and mentally abusive relationship of almost 6 yrs.. I do take a portion of the blame because after the first or second time he hit me I didnt leave. I was an adult and I had the ability to leave if i wanted to.. he didnt threaten me with death or anything. I was just young and scared. But one day it just came to me- i could keep letting life happen to me or I could take back my life.. I DO NOT think it was ok for York to abuse his "power" to sex all those women, however, I also do not think that it was ok for those women to sleep with him because they were separated from their own mate.. or because he was the supposed "savior".. To me.. that would've raised a red flag- why would such a holy, righteous man if he is indeed so, sleep with many women? I dont care how you tried to explain it to me- it wouldn't have chimed right- in my head. Or separating me from my family and friends- another red flag. You would have to kill me dead- to separate my family and me. Like Kah said, there was a lot of blame to spread around for what happened.. with the exception of the children- they never had a choice. Kah mentioned the children seeing the women behave that way and made them think that behavior was ok.. I fully believe that we as parents have to watch every move we make because we are our children's FIRST and most important role model. We have to be doubly sure that our behavior demonstrates what we expect from our children.. and if you dont set up a good guide to follow then you are partially to blame. And the men- how could you put your wives out there to allow something like that to go on??

One last thing.. i keep hearing the arguement from other nuwaubians that 17 is legal age of consent in some places.. that may be so.. but truly how mature is the average 17 yr old?? not very.. and what could a man of his age possibly have in common with a child of 17?? NOt a damn thing.. and so WHAT if that 17 yr old had slept with other boys?? York was just as wrong for condoning that behavior.

[SisterofLove]

Greetings...

The reality is constantly being made clear before our eyes. Many of those brothers did not stay as long as they did for the sake of accumulating the inevitable 144,000 but for the hidden treasures between the women's Nile Valley.

The ugliness of it all is that the many children who have been fathered were not given a father to look up to or a stable family structure. There was no man shortage within the Nuwaupian community. I can remember a many days stepping out in Brooklyn or on Tamare and seeing loads of attractive brothers but a scarce amount of sisters or equal amount of sisters to the brothers.

So there is no excuse!

Peace!

[kAHANyAH]

no offense SisterofLove but thus far all I am reading are the condemnations of the men. What about the women ? . Are you telling me they have NO RESPONSIBILITY IN THIS ?

SisterofLove said:

Greetings...

The reality is constantly being made clear before our eyes. Many of those brothers did not stay as long as they did for the sake of accumulating the inevitable 144,000 but for the hidden treasures between the women's Nile Valley.

The ugliness of it all is that the many children who have been fathered were not given a father to look up to or a stable family structure. There was no man shortage within the Nuwaupian community. I can remember a many days stepping out in Brooklyn or on Tamare and seeing loads of attractive brothers but a scarce amount of sisters or equal amount of sisters to the brothers.

So there is no excuse!

Peace!

[SisterofLove]

Greetings....

For the ill treatment to have persisted for so long, it definitely took both male and female to participate. The diagnosis was placed upon all involved and at this moment, the focus was upon the men who allowed themselves to be castrated spiritually once they saw the reality of York's work.

If you have some time, go and read some of my other posts which discusses both male and female.

So the sisters who have stayed and accepted the continuous abuse and subsequently passed that on to their children are just as responsible.


Peace!

kAH said:

no offense SisterofLove but thus far all I am reading are the condemnations of the men. What about the women ? . Are you telling me they have NO RESPONSIBILITY IN THIS ?

[kAHANyAH]

Okay, I dont wanna sound argumentative but I need some clarification being that I am an outsider. Its been established the children were abused. How so for the women ? I've heard of an incident where one of york's concubines was slapped. Were there spousal abuses goin on on the compound ?

SisterofLove said:

Greetings....

For the ill treatment to have persisted for so long, it definitely took both male and female to participate. The diagnosis was placed upon all involved and at this moment, the focus was upon the men who allowed themselves to be castrated spiritually once they saw the reality of York's work.

If you have some time, go and read some of my other posts which discusses both male and female.

So the sisters who have stayed and accepted the continuous abuse and subsequently passed that on to their children are just as responsible.


Peace!

[SisterofLove]

As it stands, I never lived on the land.

However, the negativity that exuded from those that did live there as we interacted with them showed the dismal mentality of the people. Also, the way the people lived is a testimony to what became a breeding ground of despondency.

The sisters on the land could better tell you what abuse they endured. Yet going by the fact that some women accepted a man not respecting them as his wife, not taking care of his family responsibilities or telling her to perform vile acts, not to mention whatever verbal abuse was enacted, to me is accepting abuse. Showing the degradation of the persons mindset to accept nonsense.

At best, the abuse was simply living for York and not for the benefit of the movement.

Peace!