Hebrew Marriage

[Zakiah Levanah]

SatiyaH said:

But see--not everybody practices Hebraic law, so I wanted you to step outside of that, even though your thread is about "hebrew marriage". See, you have a wedding, and you have a marrige. The two are different. What does it mean to consumate a marriage?

What if something happend to your nation/hall of records/ etc. and you wanted to make a woman "yours".

And--you never answered me (or i didn't see it) if a man and woman, for all intents and purposes are living as "man and wife". Sharing the household, raising the kids, struggling, etc. are they not in a sense married? I mean, if his friends come around they don't grab her hand and lead her into the bedroom and say 'well, she ain't your wife', cause if they did you'd be ready to kick some azz! They know the two of you are together, though not legally bound. Same when you got a "relationship" with a woman, and another woman comes in to play somehow--if she got any sense about her she isn't gonna by that line the man may throw "we ain't married". She sees--ya'll living together, got a kid together, or got one on the way--she knows "ok, they may not be 'married married' but damn I ain't stupid".
And, like I mentioned earlier--if you got not "intent" on marrying a woman--why live with her and waste a few years of your life and hers? Time is precious--and if you're like "I ain't gonna marry this chick 'cause I don't like my job or she's crazy and gets on my nerves" then stop wasting time. I see that shit soooo often it drives me nuts! I can't for the sake of me see why my brother never married this woman he been with for 15 damn years! What--afraid of commitment? WTF?
Two kids is a commitment. Hell, 1 kid is a commitment.
3, 4, 5, or 15 years invested is a damn commitment.
I got a friend--grew up with her. She got two kids by a man who was married when they met. He said they were seperated. Five years later--he leaves my friend and gets back with his WIFE. That's foul as hell...but she knew better. My other sister gurl, love her so--she got 3 kids and 7 years with a man who "talked marriage". They got into an argument and she said "I'm leaving" and he said "bye" because he already had something he was working on getting with--guess what. He married the "new" chick Now, here my gurl is with these 3 kids and no daddy at home--isn't about the money, she works for the city and gets paid pretty swell and he does his child support--but it's the raising of them that she needs help with. And, poor gurl 31 years old with no life! Men run from women with 3 kids and baby daddy on the side. He still tries to run her house asking "you don't have some man laying up with you while my kids are there". That's foul!

Man, this should be in the family forum
Hebrew isn't my area of knowledge--but this is a good subject.

Sad part is that documentation still can't stop you from getting ditched. They can safely meet chicks in ya house while still bedding you because I guess there is a shortage of men or there gay and sisters go for this. Then flip an leave, shack with there new chick until they can meet the grounds for divorce, divorce you and move on to another. So that peice of paper and witnesses mean nothing if the intent forever is not there.
The only difference is some people think higher of that paper and you may get alimony. Other than that men and woman a like will move on to the next opening if this was not a permanent position.

[SatiyaH]

u so silly
Well, Ahvi approves of stability in life--and that's what we all need--man woman and child!

And, another thang--in a relationship--nobody should have to walk on eggshells worrying about if they got some adversary around the next corner trying to disrupt their home. For some, a marriage "helps" that--but I'm trying to show you the commitment is far deeper than some rings, stomping on glass, throwing some rice, dowries etc. If all Derrick and I have is a piece of paper filed in one of our folders and a couple of people who remember "witnessing", then we don't have much

[1dell]

it's not meant to stop you from getting ditched. What DOES stop you from getting ditched is a discerning eye, patience, and godliness.

Ok i'll park my pen on that because I know there will be a bunch of hate showered my way.

Sh'Kinah_Tzedek said:

Sad part is that documentation still can't stop you from getting ditched. They can safely meet chicks in ya house while still bedding you because I guess there is a shortage of men or there gay and sisters go for this. Then flip an leave, shack with there new chick until they can meet the grounds for divorce, divorce you and move on to another. So that peice of paper and witnesses mean nothing if the intent forever is not there.
The only difference is some people think higher of that paper and you may get alimony. Other than that men and woman a like will move on to the next opening if this was not a permanent position.

[SatiyaH]

A situation was brought before me once, and a person said "instead of trying to do the 'right thing', he should follow his heart".

I never responded because that told me alot about the person I should have responded though. I should have said "Doing the right thing is following your heart".
See, we all have a concious, and when our heart is heavy it tells us to do the right thing. When we do the right thing, we are following our heart.
Egyptian lore teaches of the weighing of the heart.

Anyhow--marriage is what you make it. It takes work, practice and alot of trial and error. Most of all, it takes forgiveness. Forgiveness doesn't mean forget either.
It takes compassion, understanding, innerstanding.
It takes "teamwork", which is to say the both of you should be on the same page, with the same goals, and the same morals. Sometimes, the most painful experience shared can make a couple stronger than ever!

[1dell]

I don't believe in following the heart. I believe in following the mind. I believe most decisions should be logical. The heart of man is full of emotions and can't process dating. Feelings are the worst way to make a decision

[SatiyaH]

1dell said:

I don't believe in following the heart. I believe in following the mind. I believe most decisions should be logical. The heart of man is full of emotions and can't process dating. Feelings are the worst way to make a decision

Duhhhh, that's what the Egyptians knew. That the heart held the emotions. That the heart held the secrets. That is why they "weighed" it. The only way to make it light, is to deal with what makes it heavy.
When you "do the right thing", you're heart gets lighter--thus, in essence--you followed your heart.

[SatiyaH]

SatiyaH said:

Duhhhh, that's what the Egyptians knew. That the heart held the emotions. That the heart held the secrets. That is why they "weighed" it. The only way to make it light, is to deal with what makes it heavy.
When you "do the right thing", you're heart gets lighter--thus, in essence--you followed your heart.

I learned to not let shit settle in my heart like that. I make a mistake or an error in judgement--and the scales start to tip with that heavy heart. I respond--I say, "hmm, why is my heart weighing heavy, how can I lighten this load". And, I use my mind to figure out the best solution. Pretty soon, that feather is weighted down.

[1dell]

Oh without doubt Sati that is a given. I thought that was already established. Those things I named are manifestations of the commitment.

In hebraic culture a man is bethrothed to a woman before they seal the covenant. In many ways it's dayum near like bearing married save for the sexual aspect. They are committed to each other long before the marriage takes place.

But I am saying that 2 committed people living together without any proof of their decision to make their union permenant is called something else, not marriage. All they doing is some fucking.

Marriage is supposed to be a life time committment. Like ishua said.

SatiyaH said:

u so silly
Well, Ahvi approves of stability in life--and that's what we all need--man woman and child!

And, another thang--in a relationship--nobody should have to walk on eggshells worrying about if they got some adversary around the next corner trying to disrupt their home. For some, a marriage "helps" that--but I'm trying to show you the commitment is far deeper than some rings, stomping on glass, throwing some rice, dowries etc. If all Derrick and I have is a piece of paper filed in one of our folders and a couple of people who remember "witnessing", then we don't have much

[SatiyaH]

1dell said:

But I am saying that 2 committed people living together without any proof of their decision to make their union permenant is called something else, not marriage. All they doing is some fucking.

Marriage is supposed to be a life time committment. Like ishua said.

I totally agree. That's why I said, if you have no "intentions" of ever marrying a woman, then don't waste her or your time by "shacking" up giving her a false sense of security. The culture here now permits "shacking" up so the woman allows it to continue. Not us!---We're gonna do our damndest as parents to neva eva eva eva--have our kids think it's "ok". I mean--our kids can live with us as long as they need--hopefully until they marry! I don't really look down upon someone who is working hard in their life and lives with their parents. A 22 year old man, recent college grad, perhaps working on a master's degree and saving money up should not be ridiculed for living at home.
An, un married, childless woman should not be ridiculed either. It's society here that makes these 18 year olds think they got to get some lil apartment somewhere and do it on their own. We plan to set our kids off with the proper tools in life. My mother taught me nothing about bank accounts, how to get loans, how to save--and I fucked up sooooo bad early on!
An 18 year old has pristine credit and should be guided on how to use it and keep it! There is so much focus on "being grown" and not enough focus on responsibilites.

And---if by some horrible twist of fate--any of my kids become teen parents , I will not turn my back on them--nor will I condone them to shack up at 18. I will sit with the other person involved, and their parents and ask then "what are your intentions". If there is no intention on marriage--then, I will help my child seek full custody, and perhaps have the other give up their parental rights. I don't want one of my kids going thru life with that "baby daddy, baby mama" drama following them around.
Example: if my daughter has a child at 16. And after meeting with the parents and baby father--if their are no intentions of continuing a relationship into a marriage at 18, then I will ask the father of the baby to relinquish his parental rights. I would not want child support. I would get guardianship over my "grandchild" until my daughter turns 18. And, prayerfully, if she does marry someone that man will adopt that child as his own. No drama in their lives of some man popping in and out tainting the child against the one who is doing the raising.

But--I pray and hope, that never becomes an issue in our family.

[1dell]

So what chu saying ilz, you don't have a prollem with Kahanyah's grown ass living in his mom's basement at the age of 33? hmm thats cool.

But you know what? the government has bent Sati by law depending on where you live, a couple who has lived together for 6mos-2yrs is considered spouses. I forgot the word for it.

Thats a whole nuva issue

SatiyaH said:

I totally agree. That's why I said, if you have no "intentions" of ever marrying a woman, then don't waste her or your time by "shacking" up giving her a false sense of security. The culture here now permits "shacking" up so the woman allows it to continue. Not us!---We're gonna do our damndest as parents to neva eva eva eva--have our kids think it's "ok". I mean--our kids can live with us as long as they need--hopefully until they marry! I don't really look down upon someone who is working hard in their life and lives with their parents. A 22 year old man, recent college grad, perhaps working on a master's degree and saving money up should not be ridiculed for living at home.
An, un married, childless woman should not be ridiculed either. It's society here that makes these 18 year olds think they got to get some lil apartment somewhere and do it on their own. We plan to set our kids off with the proper tools in life. My mother taught me nothing about bank accounts, how to get loans, how to save--and I fucked up sooooo bad early on!
An 18 year old has pristine credit and should be guided on how to use it and keep it! There is so much focus on "being grown" and not enough focus on responsibilites.

And---if by some horrible twist of fate--any of my kids become teen parents , I will not turn my back on them--nor will I condone them to shack up at 18. I will sit with the other person involved, and their parents and ask then "what are your intentions". If there is no intention on marriage--then, I will help my child seek full custody, and perhaps have the other give up their parental rights. I don't want one of my kids going thru life with that "baby daddy, baby mama" drama following them around.
Example: if my daughter has a child at 16. And after meeting with the parents and baby father--if their are no intentions of continuing a relationship into a marriage at 18, then I will ask the father of the baby to relinquish his parental rights. I would not want child support. I would get guardianship over my "grandchild" until my daughter turns 18. And, prayerfully, if she does marry someone that man will adopt that child as his own. No drama in their lives of some man popping in and out tainting the child against the one who is doing the raising.

But--I pray and hope, that never becomes an issue in our family.

[SatiyaH]

1dell said:

So what chu saying ilz, you don't have a prollem with Kahanyah's grown ass living in his mom's basement at the age of 33? hmm thats cool.

But you know what? the government has bent Sati by law depending on where you live, a couple who has lived together for 6mos-2yrs is considered spouses. I forgot the word for it.

Thats a whole nuva issue

Common law. But, so many states are no longer accepting common law, especially now with the new health care privacy act. Hell, you can't even pick up a prescription for somebody unless you are the parent or spouse! Legal spouse.

My point was about a child who has "never" been out on his or her own. I'm saying just because a person turns 18 or 21 don't mean they "gotta get the hell out of my house 'cause I ain't taking care of no grown folks". That's a bad mentality to have--kinda reptilian in nature and not mammalian/tribal/herd. Just--ok, I did my part now be gone. Parenting is life long.

If my son was just being lazy, wasn't trying to better himself, and he wants to lay around my house in his boxers and eat coco puffs while I work...that's another issue. I'm saying--he turns 18. Goes to College. Stays at home or lives on campus. 22 graduates. Continues his master's or gets a good career going--he don't "have" to move out just because he is grown. If he wants to work and put money toward buying a home and building himself up for a future family--that's great!

[Zakiah Levanah]

1dell said:

So what chu saying ilz, you don't have a prollem with Kahanyah's grown ass living in his mom's basement at the age of 33? hmm thats cool.

But you know what? the government has bent Sati by law depending on where you live, a couple who has lived together for 6mos-2yrs is considered spouses. I forgot the word for it.

Thats a whole nuva issue

Thats called common law marriage. It protects couples who live as married but didn't bother to ask the state for permission. Even the concubines should have security
Its not recognized by all states and is usually common in the southern and biblebelt states.
You have to REALLY play married though, like file tax returns, take on your mates last name in some states and there are different time periods. There used to be a myth that if you shacked for 7 years it was automatically common law, but thats not true.

Only a few states recognize common law marriages:

Alabama
Colorado
Georgia (if created before 1/1/97)
Idaho (if created before 1/1/96)
Iowa
Kansas
Montana
New Hampshire (for inheritance purposes only)
Ohio (if created before 10/10/91)
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island
South Carolina
Texas
Utah
Washington, D.C.

Hum no Maryland guess I won't be going there if my last name is still my daddy's
IF YOU LIVE IN A STATE THAT DOES NOT RECOGNIZE COMMON LAW MARRIAGE, there is no way to form a common law marriage, no matter how long you live with your partner. There is one catch: if you spend time in a state that does recognize common law marriage, "hold yourself out as married," and then return or move to a state that doesn't recognize it, you are still married (since states all recognize marriages that occurred in other states). However, this is murky legal territory and we don't recommend experimenting with it!

[SatiyaH]

THE MYTH: There is a common misperception that if you live together for a certain length of time (seven years is what many people believe), you are common-law married. This is not true anywhere in the United States.

STATES THAT RECOGNIZE COMMON LAW MARRIAGE:
Only a few states recognize common law marriages:

Alabama
Colorado
Georgia (if created before 1/1/97)
Idaho (if created before 1/1/96)
Iowa
Kansas
Montana
New Hampshire (for inheritance purposes only)
Ohio (if created before 10/10/91)
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island
South Carolina
Texas
Utah
Washington, D.C.



IF YOU LIVE IN A STATE THAT DOES RECOGNIZE COMMON LAW MARRIAGE: If you live in one of the above states and you "hold yourself out to be married" (by telling the community you are married, calling each other husband and wife, using the same last name, filing joint income tax returns, etc.), you can have a common law marriage (for more information on the specific requirements of each state, see next page). Common law marriage makes you a legally married couple in every way, even though you never obtained a marriage license. If you choose to end your relationship, you must get a divorce, even though you never had a wedding. Legally, common law married couples must play by all the same rules as "regular" married couples. If you live in one of the common law states and don't want your relationship to become a common law marriage, you must be clear that it is your intention not to marry. The attorneys who wrote Living Together (additional information below) recommend an agreement in writing that both partners sign and date: "Jane Smith and John Doe agree as follows: That they've been and plan to continue living together as two free, independent beings and that neither has ever intended to enter into any form of marriage, common law or otherwise."



IF YOU LIVE IN A STATE THAT DOES NOT RECOGNIZE COMMON LAW MARRIAGE, there is no way to form a common law marriage, no matter how long you live with your partner. There is one catch: if you spend time in a state that does recognize common law marriage, "hold yourself out as married," and then return or move to a state that doesn't recognize it, you are still married (since states all recognize marriages that occurred in other states). However, this is murky legal territory and we don't recommend experimenting with it!

[1dell]

Cool, thats music to 1dell's ears, shawdy

and YEAH you IS shorty than me

SatiyaH said:

Common law. But, so many states are no longer accepting common law, especially now with the new health care privacy act. Hell, you can't even pick up a prescription for somebody unless you are the parent or spouse! Legal spouse.

My point was about a child who has "never" been out on his or her own. I'm saying just because a person turns 18 or 21 don't mean they "gotta get the hell out of my house 'cause I ain't taking care of no grown folks". That's a bad mentality to have--kinda reptilian in nature and not mammalian/tribal/herd. Just--ok, I did my part now be gone. Parenting is life long.

If my son was just being lazy, wasn't trying to better himself, and he wants to lay around my house in his boxers and eat coco puffs while I work...that's another issue. I'm saying--he turns 18. Goes to College. Stays at home or lives on campus. 22 graduates. Continues his master's or gets a good career going--he don't "have" to move out just because he is grown. If he wants to work and put money toward buying a home and building himself up for a future family--that's great!

[Zakiah Levanah]

SatiyaH said:

Common law. But, so many states are no longer accepting common law, especially now with the new health care privacy act. Hell, you can't even pick up a prescription for somebody unless you are the parent or spouse! Legal spouse.

My point was about a child who has "never" been out on his or her own. I'm saying just because a person turns 18 or 21 don't mean they "gotta get the hell out of my house 'cause I ain't taking care of no grown folks". That's a bad mentality to have--kinda reptilian in nature and not mammalian/tribal/herd. Just--ok, I did my part now be gone. Parenting is life long.

If my son was just being lazy, wasn't trying to better himself, and he wants to lay around my house in his boxers and eat coco puffs while I work...that's another issue. I'm saying--he turns 18. Goes to College. Stays at home or lives on campus. 22 graduates. Continues his master's or gets a good career going--he don't "have" to move out just because he is grown. If he wants to work and put money toward buying a home and building himself up for a future family--that's great!

I agree lol. I was one of the I'll get my own roof and rules kids and I did not complete the raising process i raised myself and inturn have some very immature ways at 28. Anyways your child should learn about his or her credit, insurance, savings budgeting all from mom and pops and if you can' do it refer them to a non for profit agency. They should also have enough money saved to furnish there house or have stayed ho,e long enough for mom and dad to be ready to redecorate and give them the old stuff they tore up over the years
Unless they are as you described little bums in training. My younger brother 20 at home big pot head, has little labor ready huscles but isn't really about anything. Talking about getting this federal job since last OCT but couldn't pass a piss test if weed got out your system in 24 hrs. I say off to the curb with him. my mom says thats my baby. DidI mention he had a heart condition growing up and they helped create the monster.