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Post by 1dell on Jun 3, 2004 6:35:37 GMT -5
WE have many different schools of thought out there that disagree as to what it takes for a hebrew couple to be considered married. Some thing just because a couple has sex, they are then married. Some say if a woman has a man's child they considered married. Some say there is no marriage just commited sex if there is no documentation. Others say There must be witnesses present because according to torah every word is establish with 2 or 3 witnesses
Which is it? Let's talk about it
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Post by kAHANyAH on Jun 3, 2004 8:53:23 GMT -5
tokens of virginity aint up there in the choices. The tokens of virginity was evidence of "humbling" a woman and once a man humbled the woman, she shall surely be his wife. Let him not put her away all the days of his life
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Post by 1dell on Jun 3, 2004 9:32:20 GMT -5
Because that has to do with copulation  duhh! copulation whehter the woman is a virgin or not tokens of virginity aint up there in the choices. The tokens of virginity was evidence of "humbling" a woman and once a man humbled the woman, she shall surely be his wife. Let him not put her away all the days of his life |
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Post by kAHANyAH on Jun 3, 2004 11:48:06 GMT -5
what threw me off was the documentation and witnesses comment. Okay 1dell, no need to rub the vicks on the balls mang!  |
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Post by 1dell on Jun 3, 2004 11:57:44 GMT -5
nah bamma!!! salt, vinegar, rubbing alcohol, everclear Bacardi 151 all that on them nuts. But I aint rubbing in with my own hand i dont' swang dat way shawdy |
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Post by kAHANyAH on Jun 3, 2004 12:01:08 GMT -5
LOL!!!  |
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Post by 1dell on Jun 3, 2004 12:56:41 GMT -5
Dude, I think a hebrew marriage takes a ceremony. Mainly because having sex with a woman constitutes nothing because a man can do that with a harlot or a concubine godforbid with a sibling.
In fact when Abshalom's brother raped his sister, they were not considered married.
I am making loose points to give room to a flow rebuttal. But also too, if there is no ceremony and documentation for public recognition then WHY must there be a bill of divorcement? Does it make sense we got married in secret (in the bed chamber) but we must go before the Levites to divorce and get some paperwork stating such.
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yahshuahdotcom
Neophyte
www.Yahshuah.com the bible is Black History
Posts: 49
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Post by yahshuahdotcom on Jun 3, 2004 13:36:12 GMT -5
1Dell, I agree to certain extent. I was in a "relationship" with a sista and had 4 lovely gyrls by her, but I knew that there was no way that I could have stood up and "got married" to her, even though we lived as marrried for 10 years. Pretty miserable existence, but when you're married to your children as I was, then it be like that sometime.
Marriage is not a cerremony, and it is definitely not sex. What marriage IS is a COVENANT, just lik Yahweh is married to Israel. Sex without the covenant IS fornication
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Post by 1dell on Jun 3, 2004 13:46:30 GMT -5
Yeah Zeb, I totally agree with you bro. And that's interesting what you said "married to your children" I never looked at it that way before. Covenant  hmm. Good point. Contract would be synonomous with Covenant. Normally in ancient times to draw up a covenant there would be a shedding of blood. When the blood of a virgin flows along the penis of a man that would constitute a covenant. Dag, that throws moor monkey wrenches in the plan 1Dell, I agree to certain extent. I was in a "relationship" with a sista and had 4 lovely gyrls by her, but I knew that there was no way that I could have stood up and "got married" to her, even though we lived as marrried for 10 years. Pretty miserable existence, but when you're married to your children as I was, then it be like that sometime. Marriage is not a cerremony, and it is definitely not sex. What marriage IS is a COVENANT, just lik Yahweh is married to Israel. Sex without the covenant IS fornication |
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Post by kAHANyAH on Jun 3, 2004 16:34:49 GMT -5
1dell there are different grades [types] to marriage. Virginity marriage was different from marriage to a woman who had already experience sex. I believe not too long ago I introduced you to how a woman is defiled after her first divorce. The "tokens" of virginity were sacraments of the holiest in marriage. If a woman didnt have that then she was defiled and HAD TO DECLARE this before consumating any sexual act with a mate. (Women who did not divulge this info to their mate, if no tokens were produced they could be killed). I havent studied this topic for the longest (the rites of marriage) but I do re-call 4 types (might be 5, not sure) of marriage , virginity, widow, profane and some other one. I am not sure. Gone have to fetch my old notes and get back at ya. Dude, I think a hebrew marriage takes a ceremony. Mainly because having sex with a woman constitutes nothing because a man can do that with a harlot or a concubine godforbid with a sibling. In fact when Abshalom's brother raped his sister, they were not considered married. I am making loose points to give room to a flow rebuttal. But also too, if there is no ceremony and documentation for public recognition then WHY must there be a bill of divorcement? Does it make sense we got married in secret (in the bed chamber) but we must go before the Levites to divorce and get some paperwork stating such. |
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Post by kAHANyAH on Jun 3, 2004 16:48:37 GMT -5
Here are the five grades to marriage... - Lev 21:14 A widow, or a divorced woman, or profane, [or] an harlot, these shall he not take: but he shall take a virgin of his own people to wife.
The above scripture lists all types of women considered by G-d. The highest is [1] Virginity, then [2] widow then [3] divorced then [4] profane and finally the [5] harlot. The difference between each are as follows - vigin has never known a man. Widows have known one man but were never issued a bill of divorce while the husband was alive. Divorce have known one man but were issued a bill of divorce. Profane women are women who have known multiple mates (X>2) but did not engage in sexual relations for hire. Harlots have known multiple mates (X>2) and engaged in sexual relations for hire. Profane and harlots are very similar except one gets paid to sleep around while the other doesnt. Divorce and widow are very similar except one recieves a bill of divorce while the husband is alive while the other is divorced because the husband has expired. Virginity stands alone. Hope that helped! |
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Post by 1dell on Jun 4, 2004 6:57:53 GMT -5
helped? Man! I'ont need no help! I know what I'm talkin 'bout  |
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Post by kAHANyAH on Jun 4, 2004 8:29:36 GMT -5
then I gather it assisted yo unthankful punkified brooster azz! helped? Man! I'ont need no help! I know what I'm talkin 'bout |
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Post by SatiyaH on Jun 4, 2004 8:46:48 GMT -5
Yeah Zeb, I totally agree with you bro. And that's interesting what you said "married to your children" I never looked at it that way before. Covenant hmm. Good point. Contract would be synonomous with Covenant. Normally in ancient times to draw up a covenant there would be a shedding of blood. When the blood of a virgin flows along the penis of a man that would constitute a covenant. Dag, that throws moor monkey wrenches in the plan Some women bleed who are not virgins, what's that mean? What does the scripture say about a marriage ceremony? Unfortunately you can have a child by any type of woman--a virgin, a whore, even as you put it, "god forbid" your own sister. However, although Derrick and I have a written contract from the State of Ohio, it doesn't make us "less" married if we venture into another state, nor does it make us "more" married than the man and woman living together, raising kids together, supporting one another etc. My brother has lived with the same woman for 15 years and has 2 kids by her. Does she have a right to go sex it up with someone else because they are not declared married? Does he? They miss out on the benefits of a "legal" marriage such as death benefits, health insurance, tax breaks--but, in the long run they live out the life of a married couple--it is acknowledged that they are each "taken" already and off limits to others, unless they agree to a polygamous lifestlye. And there is more than a verbal agreement to that life--but is the man financially able to live a polygamous life is the key. |
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Post by 1dell on Jun 4, 2004 9:11:30 GMT -5
Yeah I am quite familiar with women bleeding during sex and not being virgins  . anyhow. what is so sacred about the virgin union is the hymen. A covenant is made by the cutting of flesh and the spilling of blood. Since I was already talking to my hebrew brethren that is common knowledge I didn't feel a need to bore them with info they already knew. AS for the other questions are they rhetorical or do you want me to ansaar them? |
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