Hebrew Non-Israelites

[1dell]

Abram was first called to be called a Hebrew in scripture:

Gen 14:13 And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; for he dwelt in the plain of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner: and these [were] confederate with Abram.

If Abram is a Hebrew, then is not his seed also Hebrew?

We follow the hebrews only thru the lines of Ytzkhak/Isaac and Yuqob mainly because thats the lineage the bible follows. But Abram had moor sons than just Ytzkhak. In my book Yshma'al/Ishmael is also a hebrew

What about Abram's 6 other sons?

Gen 25:1 Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name [was] Keturah.

Gen 25:2 And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah.

Gen 25:3 And Jokshan begat Sheba, and Dedan. And the sons of Dedan were Asshurim, and Letushim, and Leummim.

Gen 25:4 And the sons of Midian; Ephah, and Epher, and Hanoch, and Abida, and Eldaah. All these [were] the children of Keturah.

We know that Abram sent his 6 sons away eastward from their location in Mamre of the Amorites:

Gen 25:6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.

here is the list

• Zimranites
• Yqshanites
• M'danites
• M'dynites
• Yshbaqites
• Sh'uakhites

Of the 6 offspring from Q'tureh/Keturah Only 2 have their lineage given: Yqshan and Midian. Not to say that the others didn't have offspring but the bible is focused and stays involved in the lives of peoples who have direct intercourse with the seed of Ysra'al.

Yqshan have 2 sons Sheba and D'dan. Raamah the son of Kush ALSO has 2 sons by the same name:

Gen 10:7 And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabtah, and Raamah, and Sabtecha: and the sons of Raamah; Sheba, and Dedan.

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We know that D'dan was a coastland/island people:

Jer 25:22 And all the kings of Tyrus, and all the kings of Zidon, and the kings of the isles which [are] beyond the sea,

Jer 25:23 Dedan, and Tema, and Buz, and all [that are] in the utmost corners,

They were also a Merchant people:

Eze 27:15 The men of Dedan [were] thy merchants; many isles [were] the merchandise of thine hand: they brought thee [for] a present horns of ivory and ebony.

Eze 27:20 Dedan [was] thy merchant in precious clothes for chariots.

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Isa 60:6 The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall shew forth the praises of the LORD.

Eze 38:13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?

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In all truth it makes it difficult to know which Sheba and Dedan they are talking about, the descendants of Yqshan or the descendants of Kush. But there are some clues.

Nothing is said of the descendants of D'dan/Dedan according to the names given. But only the son's of D'dan are given and not Sheba. There is a reason for that and I have yet to uncover it.

Next only the offspring of Midian are given:
Ephah, and Epher, and Hanoch, and Abida, and Eldaah

and Nothing is said of Midian's sons in scriptures by their names.

But MUCH is said about Midian:

Gen 37:28 Then there passed by Midianites merchantmen; and they drew and lifted up Joseph out of the pit, and sold Joseph to the Ishmeelites for twenty [pieces] of silver: and they brought Joseph into Egypt.

Midianites sold Yosef to the Yshma'alites who took him to egypt

Exd 2:15 Now when Pharaoh heard this thing, he sought to slay Moses. But Moses fled from the face of Pharaoh, and dwelt in the land of Midian: and he sat down by a well.

Moshe fled to Midia after he slew an egyptian

Exd 3:1 Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, [even] to Horeb.

Moshe kept the flock of his Father-in-law who was a midianite priest and was under him 40 years before he went back to egypt to liberate his people.

The history of the Midianites are tightly interwoven with that of Ysra'al.

Certainly Abram taught his 8 sons about the Most High maker of heaven and earth, certainly he taught them Torah and the Hebrew customs. Is it no wonder these civilizations have such similarities? Why is that? Because THEY TOO are hebrews!!!

Many of these names are considered Arabia. Man, I don't know why no one else has thought of this but All these peoples are hebrews. WE tend to focus too much on the children of the Promise, the children of Ytzkhak/Isaac, but the blessings and curses apply to them as well.

I would love to get my hands on some of their holy writings.

[yahshuahdotcom]

Genesis 10:21 Sons were also born to Shem, whose older brother was [9] Japheth; Shem was the ancestor of all the sons of EBER.

(for some reason, Eber is singled out in this verse)

25 Two sons were born to EBER:
One was named Peleg, [12] because in his time the earth was divided; his brother was named Joktan.

Eber was the first Hebrew who spoke the tongue (Hebrew/Eber... Heber (Luke 3:35) that was taught to his seed Abraham, which was why he was called a Hebrew

[1dell]

Yeah, you get no argument from me on that. I am just stuck between 2 theories. One that states Abram was called a hebrew because he crossed the meso' river or the nile, and the other him being a descendant of Ibr'. (the region beyond)

But hopefully taking this into consideration my purpose for recognizing this is for it to be considered in the Hebrew Israelite debate.

I am trying to figure out Why Israelite is at the end of Hebrew. Is that to designate what TYPE of hebrew they consider themselves, verses a Hebrew Midianite or a Hebrew Ishma'alite? Hebrew Abrahamite? That opens up an plethora of possibilities.

I am told over and over again of the story that we as african slaves descendants were brought here as original descendants of Israel. I begin to 1der, ALL of us or just some of us? What if there are a few Midianites sprinkled in. It would be unrighteous in my eyes for a Midianite to forsake his father only to acquiess to another tribes proginator.

I originally posted this post in protest to the name Hebrew Israelites. I never liked that name. At first I saw it as extremely redundant, but now it makes moor sense but I upset that the back of folk's minds aren't open to see if there is a Hebrew Israelite and that they feel need to make that distinction, then there ALSO must be Hebrew NON-Israelites. And they should no lesser be considered.

yahshuahdotcom said:

Genesis 10:21 Sons were also born to Shem, whose older brother was [9] Japheth; Shem was the ancestor of all the sons of EBER.

(for some reason, Eber is singled out in this verse)

25 Two sons were born to EBER:
One was named Peleg, [12] because in his time the earth was divided; his brother was named Joktan.

Eber was the first Hebrew who spoke the tongue (Hebrew/Eber... Heber (Luke 3:35) that was taught to his seed Abraham, which was why he was called a Hebrew

[yahshuahdotcom]

Yea, the doctrine of Abraham being called a Hebrew because of his travels is weak. At the scattering of the tower of Babel, there must have been MANY Hebrews.... but Eber was the particular one that was present.

My other point is that "Hebrew" is a LANGUAGE... and Abraham was definitely not given a new language "named after his traveling no less.

TEXTIs that to designate what TYPE of hebrew they consider themselves, verses a Hebrew Midianite or a Hebrew Ishma'alite?

EXACTLY!
TEXT
Deuteronomy 28:46 ...and THEY shall be upon thee for a SIGN and for a WONDER and upon thy seed forever...

is the SURE indication of who the Hebrew ISRAELITES are today

[kAHANyAH]

I dont think all the sons of Abraham can be considered "Hebrews". That title is exclusive and inherited by the royal bloodline of Abraham. Abraham had only one royal bloodline - ISAAK who in turn had one royal bloodline - YAKUB.

Even with Eber, the sons to be considered hebrews were from the line of Peleg, not joktan.

Regarding the meaning of Hebrew - its a person, place and thing. Which is to say an ethnic type, region and language. All three criterias must be met to be an hebrew. The last of the hebrew line were the ysraelites.

[yahshuahdotcom]

"Which is to say an ethnic type, region and language. All three criterias must be met to be an hebrew."

Hmmm.... that region being... Hebron?

So the Israelites that were scattered are no longer Hebrews?

[kAHANyAH]

Thats a good question! I guess the story doesnt stop perhaps ? Maybe they're [israel] not the final hebrews and there is a successive generation to come to continue the legacy of the royal blood line of elohim on earth.

It remains to be seen.

yahshuahdotcom said:

"Which is to say an ethnic type, region and language. All three criterias must be met to be an hebrew."

Hmmm.... that region being... Hebron?

So the Israelites that were scattered are no longer Hebrews?

[gamaliel]

Well the Askhenazis never called themselves Hebrews. They know they straightup European Khazars.