ELTRUTH tell me something.....

[theman]

U supposedly have all this truth to reveal about York and all that happen, it puzzles me that you would stay so long. U say u were around him for 12 years and he said all these negative things such as "his followers being stupid", "what if he was the devils" etc... made up the pictures in the book, plagarized everything, if all of this was going on how could you continuesly follow a man, or live with a man? What does that say about you and your contribution to the stupidity of his followers and the destruction of the nation?

Unless you r 12 years old, then that means you were not born in the mosque. And if you were not born there u had experienced trhe outside world. In turn this lifestyle was not all that you were used to. Did you know whenb this started that it was wrong?

Why not tell your parents? or law enforcements sooner than you did?

Did you recruit younger girls for him? if so why?

Be honest, were u happy about being one of the "master teacher" lovers or mates?

[ELTRUTH]

12 years in an ESTIMATE not exact . and first of all if u raise a child in something one way unless they have outside exposure they wont know what is right or wring unless u tell them, i was under the spell that u still are under- fortunate for me i began to wake up,- its was a hard realization and even when u did hear things like that - he taught us that is all we had - so when u think that is life u deal with it untill u find better means. YOU are going of assumption that noone said ANYTHING prior to what ever trail things was /is going on- and your wrong! - i am sorry that u wasnt on the inside to know different people at differnet times said differnt things, and what i said is that i was ESTIMATE 12 or more years around him- i didnt say that is the only time i was 'indoctrinated' or in that sillyness. for that was much longer.i know u want to belive that he is this innocent old man that 'everyone' is picking on - u want to find fault in what even ANYONE says who has the balls to stand up and say something different -than what is being taught- have u ever considered maybe its was the god in these victims that opened them up to a differnt way of thinking and being? the same way when u have a bunch of christians and anyone came up with something different than christianity or main stream religion was persecuted- for being different - for not wanting to be a mear follower- - the fact that u say 'suppossedly' shows me u never was in his circle at ANY time during newyork- or sulivan county- or gerogia- beacsue EACH of those locations has incedents where people tried to speak up and was either shut down or kicked off. there was a young girl upstate new york who told her mother and her mother approached the sisters 'in charge' at the time and his main 'wives' at the time- that sisters ENTIRE family was put out with out a place to go - with all her kids. there was a brother who testified FOR doc - who - back in brooklyn was told by doc to 'shut up' one of his co wives who questioned why some of the young girls was going to his house 12 midnight- there were some people who went to him and told him how the young girls on the land in eatonton was miserable, some of the young women locked up for lying with doc in this trail are the SAME people who was in trouble and almost KICKED out just beacsue they questioned and disagreed with many thing going on of that nature. u dont know IF i experienced the outside world or for how long IF i did. people have MANY assumetions all i am stating is FACTS beacsue i lived ther like many others- its easy for someone who just buys a book and read to say he is innocent and being set up- thats what they want to believe- its easy for the 'unmm' to post one sided flyers of lies when they know all who reading wont question- its easy to LIE that way- but when u have people who can say I WAS there i lived in 100 i lived in 103 the girls house the boys house the trailer- i know of the horrid living conditions - etc etc- its a whole different ball game- so if u want BELIEFS stick to posting on unnm.com and leave this FACTUAL chatroom ALONE!

[BalkisII]

Very well said EL TRUTH, and not to mention the fear that was implanted in the children if they told their secrets, why, he even treatened one child with taking her life. I rememer hearing him one time say that he was going kill this particular child and throw her body in the deer pen, that nobody would know she was gone, but we all thought he was kidding around.

He would say things that we thought were off the wall but you take that he was joking, because it would be contrary to what we project to the public.

Those children trusted him like a parent.

Many things have been going on for years, and the multitude of brothers there did not revolt and make changes. If they did say something, out they went.

So it is easy for someone who did not have the courage to move in, nor to be a part through their stores and beeing involved in other ways, to just stay in the back ground and say this or that, but you had to have been there to know. You had to have been sincere enough to to follow, what you thought was good guidance.

The children wer corageous enough to come forth and say what happened to them, and what they did.

And now that their beloved teacher is down, even though they accept that fact, and say wow, they expect others to go down with him for doing what he INDOCTRINATED THEM INTO DOING?

No, they are victims, they were used!

The proper one is in jail where he belongs, and those who now AFTER the facts are out, keep perpertrating a lie for this vile man, then maybe them, do deserve some jail time like him

[theman]

OK, let's get something straight, never once did I say he was innocent or guilty. Never once did I say that I wanted him to be innocent or you were picking on him, so stop your lying. I said supposedly because I was not there so I don't know and I will never know. It is your words against his. Only u and him and the others know the truth.

now on to you and Balkis. U two were the jackass or dumb ass fools you stayed on the land for all those years. U witness all these crimes and foul acts being committed and chose to stay. And you are trying to say I didn;t have the courage to move in? Or I want beliefs?
If it happened, it happened. I was asking what was your role in this whole situation. U witness all these people speaking out and did you do anything no. U chose to get involved with this man. U chose to deceive people knowing he wasn't whgo he was and now you want people to listen to your story. What did you do when other spoke out against him? nothing.

U know nothing about me but you choose to say many things u have no idea about. I know who you are. I know your history with York. I know your true identity. U hide behind this name(EL TRUTH) if you want to, I am just trying to get both sides, because if you weren't so dumb York would not have been able to do the things he did. Me not moving in had nothing to do with courage, I was smart. I heard about the things going on and I decided I wanted something different for me and my family. U are absolutely right, I only read the books, but like i said before I never said he was innocent. All the parents abandoned their children and allowed this man to raise their kids, how stupid is that. Hell with a mission, my first responsibility is to my kids and yes I have kids.

U lived in 100, 103 and all the other buildings and seen the conditions and u stayed. U knew he was not the man of this day and time and you chose to continue to deceive people. U fucked him over and over and you knew he was involved with other family members, and it didn't stop you. Stop acting like you are so innocent and u knew nothing else. U knew it was wrong, u said it yourself but maybe like i said you enjoyed it.

[theman]

Oh yeah I forgot to mention, I am not under a spell and I never was. I took the books for what it was, information. I got the message he was trying to send, U got caught up in the man.

secondly with all you said in your reply, u never address the question I asked. you skated around the topic, typical of students of the master. LOL.

[ELTRUTH]

same questions... same asnwers....

in your post u stated u started reading in 1989- by that time there wasnt as stong apull for people to move in the community as there had been in the 70 and early 80's were it was a MUST to move in before the gates closed, so people did what they thought they had to- people thought they were sacrificing- it seems to me u are going alot based on hearsay than actual facts- the facts are that IF YOUR wanted to know the truth for YOURSELF- u could have gone to brunswick YOURSELF and heard for YOURSELF the prosecutors show PROOF that there were MANY complaints and REQUEST to improve the living conditions, and many request for simple toiletries. there were people who got up there and said they complained to him how he was treating people and what was going on- and many of the girls /boys/ banaats / sisters who DIDNT go along with what he said was threatened and even FORCED in many instances. one girl said how he threatened to KILL her - she wasnt the only one he threatend - just the only one to ADMIT it. the children gave NUMEROUSE accounts how they was cohherced NOT to leave or what would happen if they did, and they were cut off from regular family memembers and lived there lifes as if that was all they had. the same way if u READ articles about children brought up in ABUSIVE households they dont KNOW any better they get used to the abuse- so before passing judgements on people do research on simular cases of abuse, starvation, manipulation, mind control, rape, child molestation (ESPECIALLY IN CHURCHES AND SUCH PLACES) u will SEE the same outcome. this is not the first set of kids to grow and and speak of abuse. it wont be the last - unfortuantly. if a child is being taught to have sex from 5 years old - and told to not tell anyone becasue it was a good secret- how is she or he sopposed to know its wrong if people are not thinking to tell them and teach tem about abuse beacsue people think the kids are SAFE? i know u are trying to get a certain 'POINT' accross, but maybe do some research first. and stop being so one track minded. even though u claim to be 'honestly seeking the truth' anyone in their right mind can hear the vitriol in your heart!

[KnaxemDead]

theman, So what exactly is The Message?

[theman]

The information instilled black pride back into our race.

[ELTRUTH]

so at what cost? theman? at the cost of the very thing u are to protect? the children? so as long as he is 'instilling' black pride its okay to pork all his congregations kids INCLUDING his OWN? its okay for him to FORCE his gay habits on boys not old enough to make their own decision if they are gay or straight? even REGUALR gay men dont try to push themselves on straight men and ESPECIALLY dont condone pushing their way of life on kids. for him to FORCE women to have sex with men other than their husbands/mates - his OWN 'wives' in fact! its okay since he is giving u (someone elses) doctrine?

[theman]

Once again, we avoid the question. I am not speaking of the children who were 5 and 7 when this started. I am speaking of the older adults who were involved. 3 women who were granted immunity testified that they recruited younger girls for him. These are the people I am speaking of.

Once again you don't state facts. I know many people who were victims of abuse, hell I have a older sister who is a victim of it, so please speak what u know.

i am not just speaking of the abuse also. I am speaking of the whole system that was setup there, the lies and the deceit that was potrayed to the "stupid followers". The poor living conditions and the many years it carried on. In order for someone to accomplish all of this he had to have assistance. all the books that were written, pictures painted, stories told, there were people who knew what they were doing was wrong and continued to do it. This went on for decades not just one or two years.

U speak of the 70's when exactly did you move in? Was it during the time of the gates closing? I heard that when I started reading the gates are closing, hell I was invited to move in from York himself in 92. I was instructed to tell the brooklyn community he said i could move in. I chose not to because I was not doing any guard duty or peddle any books of his, I am too smart for that, and I didn't need him to tell me either, I knew it.

If I didn't see it with my own eyes isn't it hearsay? Isn't what u are saying hearsay to me because I didn't witness it? The hearsay u speak of is from people who also lived on the land in BK and GA. So is their hearsay less factual than yours? I never said you were lying about anything you have stated on this board. What I was questioning was your role in all of this Is this all York doing or did he have help?

My life was not based around York so whether he stays in jail or goes free my life will not change. My life is the same as it has always been since my first day going to New Comers class.

U stand on your soapbox and say how bad York is and how we are so stupid to think he didn't do it. I ask what was your role? or are you guilt free?

[theman]

so at what cost? theman? at the cost of the very thing u are to protect? the children? so as long as he is 'instilling' black pride its okay to pork all his congregations kids INCLUDING his OWN? its okay for him to FORCE his gay habits on boys not old enough to make their own decision if they are gay or straight? even REGUALR gay men dont try to push themselves on straight men and ESPECIALLY dont condone pushing their way of life on kids. for him to FORCE women to have sex with men other than their husbands/mates - his OWN 'wives' in fact! its okay since he is giving u (someone elses) doctrine?

According to you, he was more interesting in quantity not quality, which means there was more than one person participating. Are the other witnesses guilty of this also. Habioba saids she never had sex with him alone there was alway someone present, so other people are witnessing this. U say FORCE, did these people have a choice to leave if they wanted to, or were they held prisoners like a jail? I once said to Balkis it sounded like over in Afganistan, she said to me being I wasn't there I couldn't say that and it was not always that bad. U witness people speaking out, what stopped you? were u afraid of being thrown out? How did you leave in the first place? If you were thrown out, wasn't that a good thing?

Stop trying to make it seems like I am condoning him abusing women and children. I am attacking the older adults there who could make some decisions.

there were 13 children named in the suit but there were dozens more who he molested that the statue of limitation were up on. What about them? What about the calendar of 45 women and 86 children he fathered? Why were the women allowing themselves to be abused? If they were outside in the world would they allow a brother to just play them like that? Or were they worshipping him?

According to women who was his mate, they said it was considered a privledge if he wanted you. Sound like idol worship to me. or maybe they wanted an angel baby. I don't know. What I do know is people made choices to live with him and around him and no matter how bad things got they didn't want to leave. Or should I say they would be attack by demons waiting for them if they left. LOL

[ELTRUTH]

well if what i say is 'hearsay' to u then why bother ask? first of all i am giving GENERAL details of what went on in bk, upstate ny and ga. i am not giving EXACT details for sake of others privacy NOT yorks- the REASON i bring it up - becasue there is SOO much lies and hearsay posted on the unnm website, and people just basing on what they want to believe that i felt compelled to give information from an 'insiders' view for lack of a better term. I dont OWE u ANY details of what i played if any with york. what ever i say u will negate or say its lies ANYWAY - and that is NOT my purpose on this forum. you ARE going by assumstion becasue u ASSUME that 4 and 5 years old are the ONLY people he manipulated and there was MANY MORE. for me to go and EXPLAIN the difference of what a victims is versus a WILLING accomplis to a grown man who so called study abuse is RETARDED! beacsue if u did - u would know that people can be beguiled- conned- victimised- and used AT ANY AGE! if u read up on cults or if you were in fact as bright as u say- u would know the effects of how things took place- so NO i will not allow you to try and 'trick me into - mold me into ' what ever game you are playing! if u feel he is innocent- and want to go by nuwaubian hearsay- then the bb to post on is unnm.com. the FACT that they didnt not print or cover or update the site since the trail -untill now- and still havent set the record strait that he was FOUND guilty and infact did PLEA guilty- shows they are covering up the truth. and YOu are avoiding my questions at WHAT cost do u sacrifice for truth? and is it okay for him to screw everything moving INCLUDING his OWN children just beacsue he gave u 'knowledge' even he says there is nothing new under the sun- with that being said u DIDNT need him to uplift black people- get up off your lazy AZZ's and uplift yourself

[theman]

As i said before I never said he was innocent. but once again we aviod responsibility. I have said before the hearsay i heard is from people who liveds there ex-mates, Habiba, not the unnm site. NOt once did I mention those flyers, u did. U said I heard hearsay, so I mention if that is so then what u are saying is also hearsay or are u the only one qualified enough to state facts? (York tactic). I do know as an adult if you were tricked by his games or whatever you call it then it is your fault no one else. the parents of these kids are just as guilty as he is. They allowed this to happen. They should be slapped. the girls recruiting for him are also guilty.

Trick you or mold you, please u are making yourself way too important. U are not that important to me that I need to do that. Don't get mad at me because u allowed yourself to be York's bitch. Get mad at yourself. I just asked if you are going to tell it tell both sides that all.

Like I said i know who u are, these other people don;t so u can copme on here and say whatever and noone can question you about it(York Tactic). I have bnoth sides of the story and I am revelaing both sides not just one side. For a man to molest and abuse hundreds of people for decades then either everyone is a idiot or he had to have help and I am showing that u helped him and I want to knwo are u guilty for your roles.

[ELTRUTH]

u know this is not a forum for u to get even becasue you are mad- the tittle states : YORK FORUM . u act as if i dont KNOW who YOU re i do- but that is not the issue. u are upset and you are trying to lash out on me- get OVER IT and move on-!- u only THINK u know becasue u talk to people who didnt know everything- and stop LYING about talking to habiba u just know the name you talked to sakiyna so get your LIES straight!. and obviously i am NOT talking about adults tricked by your teacher.- which in fact adults can be conned as well - or they wouldnt be so many cults today- and what u say now in this forum is not what u were saying 6 months ago- when u was trying to collect information for some book - tyring to cash in on others pain and trauma- trying to play x nuwaubian. like i said u are not GOING on facts- U DONT have it. you try to use people for their information to hopefully cash in on it- YOU WONT GET IT HERE honey -
parents need to be slapped? what about people trying to get close to people for information? and putting on a front to use people? I will return to the REGULAR york post- you are a WASTE of time- and i didnt have time for you 6 months ago casue i knew u were a phony - and i dont have time for u today. so... with that said - WADU!!!
lol

[BalkisII]

"U two were the jackass or dumb ass fools you stayed on the land for all those years."

Well at least if we were "jackASS or dumb ASS fools", at least we WOKE up and did the right thing.

So who are you to judge? We have ourself to llive with, so your opinion, who cares?

Some people are STILL stuck on STUPID, and dont't even know it !

Imagine if york had a defense lieyer, oh I mean lawyer like "the man", who by the way NEEDED another "man", in this case a fagot, to let him have a sense of pride" - he might had had a better chance of winning the fed case, and he could have well earned the $175 G's! Patrick does know that his client is guilty, but he's paid to defend him and say he's not.

How don't you have a sense of pride? No man can give you that, yet still, they are "theman" and they needed a fagot to tell them that!

So no, it's not a question of his guilt, he just want to be judge and jury!

and..."They should be slapped", so m9'nish!

ELTRUTH said:

him to screw everything moving INCLUDING his OWN children just beacsue he gave u 'knowledge' even he says there is nothing new under the sun- with that being said u DIDNT need him to uplift black people- get up off your lazy AZZ's and uplift yourself