Post by 1dell on Jun 6, 2004 14:47:06 GMT -5
We were having a discussion in our Chatroom today about whether not chicken was clean or unclea. We were talking about KFC versus Popeyes. And about how KFC is now using vegetable oil versus the compressed pig lard.
Master 9 Then asked is Chicken clean? Meaning in the Torah is it permissable to eat Chicken? Hmm good question, the researchers went to work right then and there. Being the Illuminopolites (cuz we so polite) that we are broke out the table cloth and broke bread together right there on the spot. I presented the dish: Leviticus 11:13-22
Lev 11:13 And these [are they which] ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they [are] an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
Lev 11:14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
Lev 11:15 Every raven after his kind;
Lev 11:16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
Lev 11:17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
Lev 11:18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
Lev 11:19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
Lev 11:20 All fowls that creep, going upon [all] four, [shall be] an abomination unto you.
Lev 11:21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon [all] four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;
Dinner was served. We then proceeded to break the versus down like a unarmed 2006 Lexus left abandoned in Bedsty for 2 weeks.
We are given a list of unclean fowl but we are not given a list of clean fowl. In fact the list of fowl that we have are ABOMINATIONS!
EAgle
Ossifrage
Ospray
Vulture
kite
Raven
owl
Night hawk
cuckow
hawk
Little Owl
cormorant
The Great Owl
Swan
Pelican
Gier
stork
Heron
Lapwing
Bat
One thing that I noticed right off the bat (no pun intended) is that these animals have one thing in common, they are important parts of the eco system and serve the purpose of scavangers. Scavangers are necessary because they eat the filth of the earth to keep it clean. They keep the food cycle balanced and they keep the place free of disease. They have digestive systems that are different than other animals. Digestive systems that can break down food that would normally kill or sicken humans or other animals.
One reason we are not to eat them is because they are filthy
2 because you are what you eat. Thats no yoke, notice how calm some vegetarians are compared to some meat eaters.
3 because it would throw the eco system of kilter and raise the levels of pollution. For example in Maryland we are known for our crabs. We supply crabs to a large part of the country. That taxes the eco system of the Chesapeake bay (the bay where most of the crabs are captured) You should see the bay, it's filthy as a result.
There are some other reason we can possily explore later.
Normally when there is a list of species that is forbidden there is also a rule in place to help you judge whether to eat an animal even if it's NOT on the list. And for the fowl here is that rule:
Lev 11:20 All fowls that creep, going upon [all] four, [shall be] an abomination unto you.
This confused us in the chatroom discussion. How can a fowl go on all fours? Then Master 9 brought up a point that Chicken's are scavangers and that they eat anything even their own feces.
I wont to look deeper into this verse for moor clarity because it's just not making sense on this level of english:
here is teh hebrew
Kal Sh'retz ha uof Ha H'lekh ul erbuh sh'qetz hu'e l'khem
All Teaming/Swarming the Fowl the move/travel on square be counted as filthy to you.
That was a word for word translation, now something we can innerstand
All Fowl that travel in swarms of a square formation (or formation of 4) shall be considered filthy to you.
Or All fowl that travel in swarms in the cardinal directions shall be considered filthy to you.
Basically I gather that those birds that travel in groups, or packs are filthy.
the thing to ponder though is what birds are on the clean list? Where are they? I guess it's those birds that are offered to the Most High in sacrifices. If the Levites can eat them, then I guess they must be clean.
What birds are those?
Lev 12:6 And when the days of her purifying are fulfilled, for a son, or for a daughter, she shall bring a lamb of the first year for a burnt offering, and a young pigeon, or a turtledove, for a sin offering, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest:
We also know that the most high fed the children of Ysra'al with Quail while in the wilderness after they begged for flesh to eat.
Ok Ok, let me cut this short before Kah has a coniption (sp)
The chicken bird is mentioned a couple times in the HOly Writ:
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!" (Matthew 23:37 RSV)
and
"Truly, I say to you, this very night, before the cock crows twice, you will deny Me three times." (Mark 14:29-30 RSV)
Basically from the information we are given we cannot gather whether the chicken is a clean or unclean animal. In that case we must default to the disclaimer rule
Lev 11:20 All fowls that creep, going upon [all] four, [shall be] an abomination unto you.
My question is are Chickens fowl that team upon the square?
Master 9 Then asked is Chicken clean? Meaning in the Torah is it permissable to eat Chicken? Hmm good question, the researchers went to work right then and there. Being the Illuminopolites (cuz we so polite) that we are broke out the table cloth and broke bread together right there on the spot. I presented the dish: Leviticus 11:13-22
Lev 11:13 And these [are they which] ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they [are] an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
Lev 11:14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
Lev 11:15 Every raven after his kind;
Lev 11:16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
Lev 11:17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
Lev 11:18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
Lev 11:19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
Lev 11:20 All fowls that creep, going upon [all] four, [shall be] an abomination unto you.
Lev 11:21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon [all] four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;
Dinner was served. We then proceeded to break the versus down like a unarmed 2006 Lexus left abandoned in Bedsty for 2 weeks.
We are given a list of unclean fowl but we are not given a list of clean fowl. In fact the list of fowl that we have are ABOMINATIONS!
EAgle Ossifrage Ospray Vulturekite Raven owl Night hawk cuckow hawk Little Owl cormorant The Great Owl Swan Pelican Gier stork Heron Lapwing BatOne thing that I noticed right off the bat (no pun intended) is that these animals have one thing in common, they are important parts of the eco system and serve the purpose of scavangers. Scavangers are necessary because they eat the filth of the earth to keep it clean. They keep the food cycle balanced and they keep the place free of disease. They have digestive systems that are different than other animals. Digestive systems that can break down food that would normally kill or sicken humans or other animals.
One reason we are not to eat them is because they are filthy
2 because you are what you eat. Thats no yoke, notice how calm some vegetarians are compared to some meat eaters.
3 because it would throw the eco system of kilter and raise the levels of pollution. For example in Maryland we are known for our crabs. We supply crabs to a large part of the country. That taxes the eco system of the Chesapeake bay (the bay where most of the crabs are captured) You should see the bay, it's filthy as a result.
There are some other reason we can possily explore later.
Normally when there is a list of species that is forbidden there is also a rule in place to help you judge whether to eat an animal even if it's NOT on the list. And for the fowl here is that rule:
Lev 11:20 All fowls that creep, going upon [all] four, [shall be] an abomination unto you.
This confused us in the chatroom discussion. How can a fowl go on all fours? Then Master 9 brought up a point that Chicken's are scavangers and that they eat anything even their own feces.
I wont to look deeper into this verse for moor clarity because it's just not making sense on this level of english:
here is teh hebrew
Kal Sh'retz ha uof Ha H'lekh ul erbuh sh'qetz hu'e l'khem
All Teaming/Swarming the Fowl the move/travel on square be counted as filthy to you.
That was a word for word translation, now something we can innerstand
All Fowl that travel in swarms of a square formation (or formation of 4) shall be considered filthy to you.
Or All fowl that travel in swarms in the cardinal directions shall be considered filthy to you.
Basically I gather that those birds that travel in groups, or packs are filthy.
the thing to ponder though is what birds are on the clean list? Where are they? I guess it's those birds that are offered to the Most High in sacrifices. If the Levites can eat them, then I guess they must be clean.
What birds are those?
Lev 12:6 And when the days of her purifying are fulfilled, for a son, or for a daughter, she shall bring a lamb of the first year for a burnt offering, and a young pigeon, or a turtledove, for a sin offering, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest:
We also know that the most high fed the children of Ysra'al with Quail while in the wilderness after they begged for flesh to eat.
Ok Ok, let me cut this short before Kah has a coniption (sp)
The chicken bird is mentioned a couple times in the HOly Writ:
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!" (Matthew 23:37 RSV)
and
"Truly, I say to you, this very night, before the cock crows twice, you will deny Me three times." (Mark 14:29-30 RSV)
Basically from the information we are given we cannot gather whether the chicken is a clean or unclean animal. In that case we must default to the disclaimer rule
Lev 11:20 All fowls that creep, going upon [all] four, [shall be] an abomination unto you.
My question is are Chickens fowl that team upon the square?
I was just playing along.
.