It's ok to eat pork?

[1dell]

hebrews cannot eat meat that has been torn or that dies on it's own. They cannot eat dead flesh. But they can sell it to the nations.

Deu 14:21 Ye shall not eat [of] any thing that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that [is] in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien: for thou [art] an holy people unto the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.

Hebrews cannot lend money to other hebrews at interest but they can lend money to the nations at interest.

WHY IS THAT?!!!!

[kAHANyAH]

because the nations are valued less in holiness then the children of Israel. Goes to show you how HaShem feels about the GENTILES. Makes sense why paul and the gentiles were okay wit the eating of the swine.

[1dell]

Paul didn't eat swine nor did he teach it was ok to eat swine. you show me where Paul said to eat swine and condoned it

kAH said:

because the nations are valued less in holiness then the children of Israel. Goes to show you how HaShem feels about the GENTILES. Makes sense why paul and the gentiles were okay wit the eating of the swine.

[kAHANyAH]

LOL!!! man 1dell you is something bros.

1 TIMOTHY 4.3
COL 2.16

Paul may not have eaten it, but he aint had a pro'llem wit teachin those who did eat to continue. There are more but those are off the top of my head.

1dell said:

Paul didn't eat swine nor did he teach it was ok to eat swine. you show me where Paul said to eat swine and condoned it

[1dell]

Sigh:

1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

Tell me something Kah, did God ever create a pig to be "received with thanksgiving..."? God gave a list of what is food and what isn't food.

You must innerstand that history there was a sect of people who were going around saying that one should be a vegetarian because now that Ishua was the ultimate sacrifice there are no need to have any other sacrfices. And if there are no sacrifices then there are no eating of meat. Saying that the original man Adam was a vegetarian and that it wasn't until he sinned that he needed to eat the meat of his sacrifice. So if we are "sinless in christ" then we need not eat meat. EAting meat was evidence of sinfulness.

next:

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:

Let no man judge you in these things Kah. Meaning CONTINUE TO DO THESE THINGS!!! CONTINUE TO EAT THE CLEAN MEATS, continue to respect the holy days continue to keep the sabbaths and new moons

the next verse:

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.

These things are prophetic rehearsals of things to come. thats why we continue to do them over and over year after year. Each holyday and sacrement has within it a prophetic purpose that fortells of the day of the Lord of Eternity. Ishua can be found in each of the holydays.

Besides Kah where's your head at? I hope you know that Meat also means food, so that doesn't just include flesh but also food in general. Besides the word for Judge there in greek is Krino also meaning Let no one CONDEMN you because you do these things. Because you keep the feasts and holy days.

Jesus CHRIST! whats going on with you? These are the basics!

kAH said:

LOL!!! man 1dell you is something bros.

1 TIMOTHY 4.3
COL 2.16

Paul may not have eaten it, but he aint had a pro'llem wit teachin those who did eat to continue. There are more but those are off the top of my head.

[kAHANyAH]

this is why I keep telling you to consult the law for any info you run into in the good book!!! what law made men of israel abstain from meats! ? DIETARY LAW on CLEAN AND UNCLEAN MEATS!

Tell you what, gimme the law where men were told to ABSTAIN FROM MEATS. I await your response.

1dell said:

Sigh:

1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

Tell me something Kah, did God ever create a pig to be "received with thanksgiving..."? God gave a list of what is food and what isn't food.

You must innerstand that history there was a sect of people who were going around saying that one should be a vegetarian because now that Ishua was the ultimate sacrifice there are no need to have any other sacrfices. And if there are no sacrifices then there are no eating of meat. Saying that the original man Adam was a vegetarian and that it wasn't until he sinned that he needed to eat the meat of his sacrifice. So if we are "sinless in christ" then we need not eat meat. EAting meat was evidence of sinfulness.

next:

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:

Let no man judge you in these things Kah. Meaning CONTINUE TO DO THESE THINGS!!! CONTINUE TO EAT THE CLEAN MEATS, continue to respect the holy days continue to keep the sabbaths and new moons

the next verse:

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.

These things are prophetic rehearsals of things to come. thats why we continue to do them over and over year after year. Each holyday and sacrement has within it a prophetic purpose that fortells of the day of the Lord of Eternity. Ishua can be found in each of the holydays.

Besides Kah where's your head at? I hope you know that Meat also means food, so that doesn't just include flesh but also food in general. Besides the word for Judge there in greek is Krino also meaning Let no one CONDEMN you because you do these things. Because you keep the feasts and holy days.

Jesus CHRIST! whats going on with you? These are the basics!

[1dell]

Men of Ysra'al? Dude, These were not men of Ysra'al these were men of Colosse, Timotheo was gentile albeit had a jewish mother and grew up in the land of gentiles.

Timothy 4:1 starts off saying:

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Whatever comes after is an explaination of the doctrine of demons.

one being to abstain from foods, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving

What foods have God created to be RECEIVED with Thanksgiving? The Offerings. Obviously the doctrine of these demons was that The sacrements, the offerings were the foods one should abstain from. Not pigs because God didn't "create to be received with thanksgiving" in the first place. Lets look at the next verse:

1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God [is] good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

The word of God? Hmm about this time all they had was the OLD TESTAMENT so what creatures have been "sanctified by the word of God"?

Don't ansaar I already know bro.

kAH said:

this is why I keep telling you to consult the law for any info you run into in the good book!!! what law made men of israel abstain from meats! ? DIETARY LAW on CLEAN AND UNCLEAN MEATS!

Tell you what, gimme the law where men were told to ABSTAIN FROM MEATS. I await your response.

[kAHANyAH]

This is my point 1dell . Paul was advocating gentile eating habits. Gentiles did not keep the dietary law. Paul was teaching them they did not have to listen to those teachers of the law who were going around saying, you must follow torah! . Also if it were sacrificed foods then explain this...

Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Over here it says to abstain from it and paul was down with that teaching. Its contradicting what you just said.

1dell said:

Men of Ysra'al? Dude, These were not men of Ysra'al these were men of Colosse, Timotheo was gentile albeit had a jewish mother and grew up in the land of gentiles.

Timothy 4:1 starts off saying:

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Whatever comes after is an explaination of the doctrine of demons.

one being to abstain from foods, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving

What foods have God created to be RECEIVED with Thanksgiving? The Offerings. Obviously the doctrine of these demons was that The sacrements, the offerings were the foods one should abstain from. Not pigs because God didn't "create to be received with thanksgiving" in the first place. Lets look at the next verse:

1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God [is] good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

The word of God? Hmm about this time all they had was the OLD TESTAMENT so what creatures have been "sanctified by the word of God"?

Don't ansaar I already know bro.

[1dell]

Yeah I am familiar with that thought. I used to think that myself. Thats what christians think. But Paul was easing Torah on them dudes. Besides don't forget bro, Paul may have beeing converting Gentiles but He also preached to Jews as well. Jews were scattered all throughout the roman empire at the time.

So confirms the book of Ya'aqob/James:

James a bondservant of God and of the Lord Ishua Ha Mesh'akh to the 12 tribes which are scattered abroad.

Besides that the book of Acts tells us what the gentiles were to be taught :

Acts 15:19 "therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are TURNING to God. 20 but that we write to them to abstain from polluted idols (one God), sexual immorality(honoring your brothers wife and all sexual relation laws), things strangled (food) and from blood (murder and proper hygien and civil treatment of mankin).

These are the basis of the N'akhide law givin in Genesis 9. As we continue:

21 For Moshe has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city. BEING READ in the SYNAGOUGUES EVERY SHABBAT>

Ok Paul went around setting up churches/synagogues every place he went. What he was doing was going around giving the gentiles the basic laws that would keep them clean enough to fellowship with the jews and allow them entrance into the synagogues. AFTER they got into the synagogues they were then taught the Torah step by step. Shabbat by Shabbat. They didn't burden them with the ENTIRE torah and making them responsible for it. They were taught little by little and held accountable for what they were beign taught.

kAH said:

that was my point 1dell . Paul was advocating gentile eating habits. Gentiles did not keep the dietary law. Paul was teaching them they did not have to listen to them teachers of the law who were going around saying, you must follow torah! . Also if it were sacrificed foods then explain this...

Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Over here it says to abstain from it and paul was done with that.

[kAHANyAH]

You challenged me on something, and contradicted yourself. I want you to explain yourself please. Here look ... and I want you to either explain the apparent contradiction or admit you are in err.

1dell said : "What foods have God created to be RECEIVED with Thanksgiving? The Offerings. Obviously the doctrine of these demons was that The sacrements, the offerings were the foods one should abstain from."

However this is what Paul's doctrine says :

Act 15:29 "That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well."

We the reader need for you to clarify why you said Paul was telling Timothy that he could eat things offered unto gods when in fact what we read in Acts is for them not to eat things offered unto gods. Please explain why you said what you said and why its in conflict with the acts scripture before we proceed. Thnx.

[1dell]

Ok lets balance this:

The Doctrine of Demons is to abstain from the foods offered to God (IHaWaH) 1 tim 4:3b

Ya'aqob and the Assembly are telling the new converts to Abstain from foods offered to Idols

sorry if I wasn't clear.

Paul qualifies what he means when he says "abstain from foods that GOD created to be received with thanksgiving" that is the doctrine of demons to abstain from food that God created to be recieved with thanksgiving.

I never said that Paul said it was ok for timothy to eat food offered to idols. He never tells Timotheo that. He is merely quoting the doctrine of Demons. I hope you don't think Paul is telling Timotheo

1) Do not get Married (1 tim 4:3)
2) abstain from foods that god created to be RECEIVED with THANKSGIVING(1 tim 4:3)

Paul is saying the Doctrines of these infidels (1 tim 4:1) teaches such.

1 tim 4:2 "Speaking Lies in Hypocrisy having their own conscience seared with a hot iron (3) forbidding to marry...."

1dell said : "What foods have God created to be RECEIVED with Thanksgiving? The Offerings. Obviously the doctrine of these demons was that The sacrements, the offerings were the foods one should abstain from."

So yeah I meant that. The offerings to IHaWaH, food offered to him not offered to idols

However this is what Paul's doctrine says :

Act 15:29 "That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well."

Bro this is not Paul's doctrine, this is Ya'aqob's doctrine Thats Ya'aqob saying that not Paul. Yall give Paul too much credit.

The difference that might clear it up is that One verse speaks of foods that God created as edibles. It's ME who is saying these are offerings because when a life is taken from an animal it's offered to IHaWaH first so says Torah. Thats why I say because the scripture included "to be received with thanksgiving" then it's speaking of foods offered to IHaWaH

But yes the Messianic Hebrew assembly was mandated to teach the Gentiles to abstain from eating Meat offered to IDOLS. And Paul is NOT teaching against that.

kAH said:

You challenged me on something, and contradicted yourself. I want you to explain yourself please. Here look ... and I want you to either explain the apparent contradiction or admit you are in err.

1dell said : "What foods have God created to be RECEIVED with Thanksgiving? The Offerings. Obviously the doctrine of these demons was that The sacrements, the offerings were the foods one should abstain from."

However this is what Paul's doctrine says :

Act 15:29 "That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well."

We the reader need for you to clarify why you said Paul was telling Timothy that he could eat things offered unto gods when in fact what we read in Acts is for them not to eat things offered unto gods. Please explain why you said what you said and why its in conflict with the acts scripture before we proceed. Thnx.

[kAHANyAH]

Here is another thought 1dell, according to law is the common man allowed to eat the sacraments ?

[kAHANyAH]

tell you what 1dell, im gonna make it ezier for you to climb out of this hole you dug yourself into. Did Paul at anytime either teach himself OR was affiliated with a ministry which taught, men did not have to keep the dietary laws ?

1dell said:

Ok lets balance this:

The Doctrine of Demons is to abstain from the foods offered to God (IHaWaH) 1 tim 4:3b

Ya'aqob and the Assembly are telling the new converts to Abstain from foods offered to Idols

sorry if I wasn't clear.

Paul qualifies what he means when he says "abstain from foods that GOD created to be received with thanksgiving" that is the doctrine of demons to abstain from food that God created to be recieved with thanksgiving.

I never said that Paul said it was ok for timothy to eat food offered to idols. He never tells Timotheo that. He is merely quoting the doctrine of Demons. I hope you don't think Paul is telling Timotheo

1) Do not get Married (1 tim 4:3)
2) abstain from foods that god created to be RECEIVED with THANKSGIVING(1 tim 4:3)

Paul is saying the Doctrines of these infidels (1 tim 4:1) teaches such.

1 tim 4:2 "Speaking Lies in Hypocrisy having their own conscience seared with a hot iron (3) forbidding to marry...."

1dell said : "What foods have God created to be RECEIVED with Thanksgiving? The Offerings. Obviously the doctrine of these demons was that The sacrements, the offerings were the foods one should abstain from."

So yeah I meant that. The offerings to IHaWaH, food offered to him not offered to idols

However this is what Paul's doctrine says :

Act 15:29 "That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well."

Bro this is not Paul's doctrine, this is Ya'aqob's doctrine Thats Ya'aqob saying that not Paul. Yall give Paul too much credit.

The difference that might clear it up is that One verse speaks of foods that God created as edibles. It's ME who is saying these are offerings because when a life is taken from an animal it's offered to IHaWaH first so says Torah. Thats why I say because the scripture included "to be received with thanksgiving" then it's speaking of foods offered to IHaWaH

But yes the Messianic Hebrew assembly was mandated to teach the Gentiles to abstain from eating Meat offered to IDOLS. And Paul is NOT teaching against that.

[1dell]

Yeah bro, I see where you are going with that. And the answer is the sacrifices was for the Priests to eat. Thats why I said that before a life was taken it was supposed to be offered to God (Received with thanksgiving) Thats why I am against saying grace at the dinner table.

I will have to find that scripture that shows wher one is suppose to offer the animal before eating it. Something about pouring the blood on the ground. I will have to hunt for it.

kAH said:

Here is another thought 1dell, according to law is the common man allowed to eat the sacraments ?

[kAHANyAH]

I want you to read this before you answer the above post...

• Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
  
• Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
  
• Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
  
• Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
  
• Col 2:15 [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
  
• Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:
  
  WHO WAS HE TALKING TO 1DELL ? WAS HE TALKING TO THOSE WHO KEPT THE LAW OR THOSE WHO DIDNT KEEP THE LAW. Just answer that for me. Do not start posting up scriptures,etc... . Just answer which group he was speaking to.
  
  thnx.