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Post by CoUrTnEy on Mar 25, 2004 22:34:50 GMT -5
so you are claiming that the this scripture is the bible's way of saying it was copied from the egyptians.. pulease.. you are full of assumptions tonight.. sometimes things are to be taken at face value. coutney!! aaauuggghhh!!!! the answer is in the scripture. This is what the gold is, LOOK! -> Exd 32:4 And he received [them] at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These [be] thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. I took the liberty of highliting the main crux of the scripture which alludes to the gods of egypt.  |
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Post by kAHANyAH on Mar 25, 2004 22:36:26 GMT -5
I prefer the word used by the very author who wrote it in there - " BORROWED" peace. so you are claiming that the this scripture is the bible's way of saying it was copied from the egyptians.. pulease.. you are full of assumptions tonight.. sometimes things are to be taken at face value. |
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Post by 1dell on Mar 25, 2004 22:42:36 GMT -5
oK Kah, riddle me this, we know that in their impatience they made for themselves gods of gold after the ways of egypt. But canst thou seeth that this excited the anger of IHaWaH such that he was ready to destroy them?
Exd 32:7 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted [themselves]:
Exd 32:8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These [be] thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
Exd 32:9 And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it [is] a stiffnecked people:
Exd 32:10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.
Dude, we know them hebrews to be a people that followed hard after other deities from time to time but IHaWaH and his Messiahs were always there to rebuke their actions. Thats a unique thing about the bible. If they were such borrows and theives of other cultures then why would they have such rebukes in their book? If I was a hebrew editor I would have left out the parts where God said he wanted to destroy us, divorce us, forsake us and the whole 9. That information is contradicting to your rebuttal.
Tell me something Kah, where did they get the gold, fabric and materials to do this stuff with here:
Exd 35:5 Take ye from among you an offering unto the LORD: whosoever [is] of a willing heart, let him bring it, an offering of the LORD; gold, and silver, and brass,
Exd 35:6 And blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen, and goats' [hair],
Exd 35:7 And rams' skins dyed red, and badgers' skins, and shittim wood,
Exd 35:8 And oil for the light, and spices for anointing oil, and for the sweet incense,
Exd 35:9 And onyx stones, and stones to be set for the ephod, and for the breastplate.
Exd 35:10 And every wise hearted among you shall come, and make all that the LORD hath commanded;
Then
Exd 35:20 And all the congregation of the children of Israel departed from the presence of Moses.
Exd 35:21 And they came, every one whose heart stirred him up, and every one whom his spirit made willing, [and] they brought the LORD'S offering to the work of the tabernacle of the congregation, and for all his service, and for the holy garments.
Exd 35:22 And they came, both men and women, as many as were willing hearted, [and] brought bracelets, and earrings, and rings, and tablets, all jewels of gold: and every man that offered [offered] an offering of gold unto the LORD.
Exd 35:23 And every man, with whom was found blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen, and goats' [hair], and red skins of rams, and badgers' skins, brought [them].
Exd 35:24 Every one that did offer an offering of silver and brass brought the LORD'S offering: and every man, with whom was found shittim wood for any work of the service, brought [it].
Exd 35:25 And all the women that were wise hearted did spin with their hands, and brought that which they had spun, [both] of blue, and of purple, [and] of scarlet, and of fine linen.
Exd 35:26 And all the women whose heart stirred them up in wisdom spun goats' [hair].
Exd 35:27 And the rulers brought onyx stones, and stones to be set, for the ephod, and for the breastplate;
Exd 35:28 And spice, and oil for the light, and for the anointing oil, and for the sweet incense.
Exd 35:29 The children of Israel brought a willing offering unto the LORD, every man and woman, whose heart made them willing to bring for all manner of work, which the LORD had commanded to be made by the hand of Moses.
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Post by 1dell on Mar 25, 2004 22:52:31 GMT -5
Kah why do you leave off the original scripture? Exd 3:22 But every woman shall borrow of her neighbour, and of her that sojourneth in her house, jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment: and ye shall put [them] upon your sons, and upon your daughters; and ye shall spoil the Egyptians. IHaWaH's purposes was to bankrupt egypt as well as provide wealth for the hebrew slaves who basically had nothing to start their nation. The wealth of egypt was CORRECTLY used to create the temple tools and tabernacle of the Most High. Most Churches nowadays have technology that is imported directly from Japan. Does that mean they are Shinto worshippers? Lets build I feel I need to add some info. here since I WAS THE ONE THAT USED THE WORD BORROW! hmmpph!  Exodus 12.35 And the children of Israel did according to the word of Moses; and they borrowed of the Egyptians jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment:Okay the children of israel borrowed jewels of silver, gold and raiment. Now literally it means just that. But we know there is more to it then meets the "I". Lets cont... Exodus 32
3 And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron.
4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.Again, this can be taken literally but there is more then meets the eye. Whats the point of all this ? Obviously the two scriptures are connected. THINK ABOUT IT. But remember, the jewels of gold were BORROWED from the egiptians. |
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Post by kAHANyAH on Mar 25, 2004 22:56:31 GMT -5
1dell, the hebrews were rebuked because they placed the gods of the heathens in position of their national god and thats a no no. It doesnt mean the gods of the nations do not exist and the knowledge of the gods of the nations doesnt exist. This is what I am saying...
The hebrews incorporated the knowledge of the divinities found in the other nations into their entire system. And in order to do so , they had to borrow from the heathen their form of knowledge. Remember 1dell, the most High divided the inheritance and gave accordingly to each nation. So each nation had a host in heaven. And the lord is Lord of hosts. What do you think was meant by solomon's building of the temple and having different heathens for different functions in the building of the temple. Even having to go to different heathens who had skillz [knowledge] the hebrews did not possess! but was needed to build the temple.
What the most High hated was when Israel negated him and placed the heathen gods in his place. But when israel put the knowledge of the heathen in proper perspective , under the power of abraham, isaac and jacob then was fulfilled the prophecy - the gates of jerusalem would be open that the glory of the gentiles could be brought in.
peace.
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Post by kAHANyAH on Mar 25, 2004 22:57:59 GMT -5
1dell you know that portion of the scripture [which i neglected to see] would do knaxem's position much justice. SPOIL is to STEAL  . Kah why do you leave off the original scripture? Exd 3:22 But every woman shall borrow of her neighbour, and of her that sojourneth in her house, jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment: and ye shall put [them] upon your sons, and upon your daughters; and ye shall spoil the Egyptians. IHaWaH's purposes was to bankrupt egypt as well as provide wealth for the hebrew slaves who basically had nothing to start their nation. The wealth of egypt was CORRECTLY used to create the temple tools and tabernacle of the Most High. Most Churches nowadays have technology that is imported directly from Japan. Does that mean they are Shinto worshippers? Lets build |
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Post by CoUrTnEy on Mar 25, 2004 23:01:55 GMT -5
so you are suggesting that there are mini-gods for the heathens?? lol 1dell, the hebrews were rebuked because they placed the gods of the heathens in position of their national god and thats a no no. It doesnt mean the gods of the nations do not exist and the knowledge of the gods of the nations doesnt exist. This is what I am saying... The hebrews incorporated the knowledge of the divinities found in the other nations into their entire system. And in order to do so , they had to borrow from the heathen their form of knowledge. Remember 1dell, the most High divided the inheritance and gave accordingly to each nation. So each nation had a host in heaven. And the lord is Lord of hosts. What do you think was meant by solomon's building of the temple and having different heathens for different functions in the building of the temple. Even having to go to different heathens who had skillz [knowledge] the hebrews did not possess! but was needed to build the temple. What the most High hated was when Israel negated him and placed the heathen gods in his place. But when israel put the knowledge of the heathen in proper perspective , under the power of abraham, isaac and jacob then was fulfilled the prophecy - the gates of jerusalem would be open that the glory of the gentiles could be brought in. peace. |
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Post by kAHANyAH on Mar 25, 2004 23:04:13 GMT -5
who am I to suggest anything  . Lets see what paul says.... 1Cr 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) What ya think Courtney, think paul is a bit looney for suggesting that ?  so you are suggesting that there are mini-gods for the heathens?? lol |
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Post by CoUrTnEy on Mar 25, 2004 23:18:35 GMT -5
umm.. . lets look at that entire passage: new living translation says: 8:5 - According to some people, there are many so-called gods and many lords, both in heaven and on earth. new king james version says: 8:5-For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), so with that in mind, one may draw the conclusion that he is saying "for the sake of arguement" and not necessarily confirming that those Gods exist. who am I to suggest anything . Lets see what paul says.... 1Cr 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) What ya think Courtney, think paul is a bit looney for suggesting that ? |
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Post by kAHANyAH on Mar 25, 2004 23:27:02 GMT -5
neither did he deny it  |
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Post by CoUrTnEy on Mar 25, 2004 23:44:03 GMT -5
seems like if there were (for the sake of arguement) other gods then he would have said "there are other gods" NOT " some say there are other gods" .. he is GOD why would he have to justify what he knows as true by saying that other's said it?? that is a load of crap and you know it. neither did he deny it |
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Post by 1dell on Mar 26, 2004 2:19:56 GMT -5
I see what you are saying bro, but check this out. To spoil is: spoil ( P ) Pronunciation Key (spoil) v. spoiled, or spoilt (spoilt) spoil·ing, spoils v. tr. To impair the value or quality of. To damage irreparably; ruin. To impair the completeness, perfection, or unity of; flaw grievously: spoiled the party. To do harm to the character, nature, or attitude of by oversolicitude, overindulgence, or excessive praise. See Synonyms at pamper. Archaic. To plunder; despoil. To take by force. emphasis mine. lets look at the verse again: Exd 3:22 But every woman shall borrow of her neighbour, and of her that sojourneth in her house, jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment: and ye shall put [them] upon your sons, and upon your daughters; and ye shall spoil the Egyptians. Dude, if they borrow JEWELRY of silver and gold and some clothes from the egyptians from the egyptians i don't innerstand how this is the same thing as you saying they stole creation stories. lol. This was nothing moor than trickery. If you know you are leaving and not coming back how are you gonna repay what you borrowed? lol. IHaWaH can be a trickster sometimes and I see him now telling them to employ the strategy acting as if they are borrowing all the while bringing them to financial ruin. Here is the fullfillment of this verse: Exd 12:36 And the LORD gave the people favour in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they lent unto them [such things as they required]. And they spoiled the Egyptians. Dude, we talking Jewelry and clothing for crying out loud. That was later used by hebrew gold smiths and silver smiths to create the tabernacle for IHaWaH to dwell in. Egypt was a rich empire, where were they to get those types of materials to erect the proper mobile temple for their deity in the wilderness? They were a bunch of broke slave builders and herders for crying out loud. What need did they have to steal ANYTHING doctrinally from egypt? Moshe has a doctrine unique for them to follow courtesy of the Midian Priest. Even when they do make the molten calf we ASSUME that this was some sort of egyptian deity, heck let derek tell it this calf was the hippopatomus goddess behemoth because hippopatomus children are also called calfs not just baby cows. But then one is left to 1der, where did these hebrews get such an idea of idol worship when their ancestors did no such thing. We then give the excuse that it's because of their 400 year stay in egypt. When put to question though what does Aharon say? Exd 32:22 And Aaron said, Let not the anger of my lord wax hot: thou knowest the people, that they [are set] on mischief.
Exd 32:23 For they said unto me, Make us gods, which shall go before us: for [as for] this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
Exd 32:24 And I said unto them, Whosoever hath any gold, let them break [it] off. So they gave [it] me: then I cast it into the fire, and there came out this calf. Aharon said that basically all he did was threw some gold into the fire and it formed into a calf looking clump of metal. Who knows maybe he was lying. But perhaps knowing how superstitious some people can be they threw the gold on the flame and watched what shape it started to take. I don't recall Aharon being knowing for his smithing skill. After watching it for a time noticed that it started to take a familiar shape then notice that it looked like a calf decided to leave it stay and the people saw it and said this is the god that delivered us. Aint no telling how that really went down. What you are saying is clever but it the scheme of things, it's just not heavy enough bro. In the end all they really took was currency from the egyptians - metal and fabric. 1dell you know that portion of the scripture [which i neglected to see] would do knaxem's position much justice. SPOIL is to STEAL . |
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Post by kAHANyAH on Mar 26, 2004 5:03:19 GMT -5
1dell, you and i BOTH KNOW what the gold ALSO means and how it was used. I aint gone debate this no mo mang!. SPOIL IS SPOIL bruh and you know it! you tryin to avoid the meaning and work around it. What does it mean to have spoils from a war ? how does one come to get these spoils of war ? anyhow we have the matter of solomon's temple. Explain that one . I see what you are saying bro, but check this out. To spoil is: spoil ( P ) Pronunciation Key (spoil) v. spoiled, or spoilt (spoilt) spoil·ing, spoils v. tr. To impair the value or quality of. To damage irreparably; ruin. To impair the completeness, perfection, or unity of; flaw grievously: spoiled the party. To do harm to the character, nature, or attitude of by oversolicitude, overindulgence, or excessive praise. See Synonyms at pamper. Archaic. To plunder; despoil. To take by force. emphasis mine. lets look at the verse again: Exd 3:22 But every woman shall borrow of her neighbour, and of her that sojourneth in her house, jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment: and ye shall put [them] upon your sons, and upon your daughters; and ye shall spoil the Egyptians. Dude, if they borrow JEWELRY of silver and gold and some clothes from the egyptians from the egyptians i don't innerstand how this is the same thing as you saying they stole creation stories. lol. This was nothing moor than trickery. If you know you are leaving and not coming back how are you gonna repay what you borrowed? lol. IHaWaH can be a trickster sometimes and I see him now telling them to employ the strategy acting as if they are borrowing all the while bringing them to financial ruin. Here is the fullfillment of this verse: Exd 12:36 And the LORD gave the people favour in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they lent unto them [such things as they required]. And they spoiled the Egyptians. Dude, we talking Jewelry and clothing for crying out loud. That was later used by hebrew gold smiths and silver smiths to create the tabernacle for IHaWaH to dwell in. Egypt was a rich empire, where were they to get those types of materials to erect the proper mobile temple for their deity in the wilderness? They were a bunch of broke slave builders and herders for crying out loud. What need did they have to steal ANYTHING doctrinally from egypt? Moshe has a doctrine unique for them to follow courtesy of the Midian Priest. Even when they do make the molten calf we ASSUME that this was some sort of egyptian deity, heck let derek tell it this calf was the hippopatomus goddess behemoth because hippopatomus children are also called calfs not just baby cows. But then one is left to 1der, where did these hebrews get such an idea of idol worship when their ancestors did no such thing. We then give the excuse that it's because of their 400 year stay in egypt. When put to question though what does Aharon say? Exd 32:22 And Aaron said, Let not the anger of my lord wax hot: thou knowest the people, that they [are set] on mischief.
Exd 32:23 For they said unto me, Make us gods, which shall go before us: for [as for] this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
Exd 32:24 And I said unto them, Whosoever hath any gold, let them break [it] off. So they gave [it] me: then I cast it into the fire, and there came out this calf. Aharon said that basically all he did was threw some gold into the fire and it formed into a calf looking clump of metal. Who knows maybe he was lying. But perhaps knowing how superstitious some people can be they threw the gold on the flame and watched what shape it started to take. I don't recall Aharon being knowing for his smithing skill. After watching it for a time noticed that it started to take a familiar shape then notice that it looked like a calf decided to leave it stay and the people saw it and said this is the god that delivered us. Aint no telling how that really went down. What you are saying is clever but it the scheme of things, it's just not heavy enough bro. In the end all they really took was currency from the egyptians - metal and fabric. |
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Post by 1dell on Mar 26, 2004 13:47:26 GMT -5
Yeah bro, I know what Gold is, its that bright yellow metal that was used for currency and jewelry.
As for spoils in a war. Dude, thats when whoop somebodies ass and take their booty. Pirates did it all the time. Does that mean they stole doctrines?
Come, come now Kah, you know better than anyone else here. Stop trying to side with Derek, resist that BS he's spewing
Abraham whooped the 5 king alliances asses and took all their ish, gave a 10 to Melchizedek and gave all the ish that belonged to Sodom back to sodom. Does that mean he stole doctrines?
Lets reverse it, Israel 3 times had their temple raided and the articles stolen, once by egypt, once by assyria and once by babylon. They stole all their gold and brass and other articles out of the temple. Does that mean that the egyptians, assyrians and babylonians were now worshipping IHaWaH. Oh how can I forget the Palestinians/PHillistines who stole the ark of God, what did they do with it? they placed it in their temple with their gods, for what? to worship it? Nah, Ysra'al also took the weapons of their enemies and placed them inside the temple as memorials of the acts of their gods. Galieth's sword and thangs were in the temple, as part of IHaWaH's resume.
We got to take the culture into account and we gotta keep practical things practical and stop making practical things esoterical for the sake of sounding deep all the time. Everything is not that deep.
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Post by kAHANyAH on Mar 26, 2004 13:55:07 GMT -5
A'ight, lets deal!  Isaiah 13.12, I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.Why is man being compared to gold and how does God make man more precious then gold ? What is this *gold of ophir* suppose to represent ? I mean since you said gold is merely gold - that yellow stuff. The temple of solomon - Solomon hired certain man of the heathen nations. Men who had skillz the hebrews lacked. This is all biblically documented. These men applied their KNOWLEDGE of certain tasks to the building of the temple. What did the most High say the temple is suppose to represent ? Lets deal!  Yeah bro, I know what Gold is, its that bright yellow metal that was used for currency and jewelry. As for spoils in a war. Dude, thats when whoop somebodies ass and take their booty. Pirates did it all the time. Does that mean they stole doctrines? Come, come now Kah, you know better than anyone else here. Stop trying to side with Derek, resist that BS he's spewing Abraham whooped the 5 king alliances asses and took all their ish, gave a 10 to Melchizedek and gave all the ish that belonged to Sodom back to sodom. Does that mean he stole doctrines? Lets reverse it, Israel 3 times had their temple raided and the articles stolen, once by egypt, once by assyria and once by babylon. They stole all their gold and brass and other articles out of the temple. Does that mean that the egyptians, assyrians and babylonians were now worshipping IHaWaH. Oh how can I forget the Palestinians/PHillistines who stole the ark of God, what did they do with it? they placed it in their temple with their gods, for what? to worship it? Nah, Ysra'al also took the weapons of their enemies and placed them inside the temple as memorials of the acts of their gods. Galieth's sword and thangs were in the temple, as part of IHaWaH's resume. We got to take the culture into account and we gotta keep practical things practical and stop making practical things esoterical for the sake of sounding deep all the time. Everything is not that deep. |
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