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Post by kAHANyAH on Mar 23, 2004 13:30:46 GMT -5
It makes you wonder why the emphasis on the [fish] in the new testament. Were the jews influenced by the phoenician and their god worship - DAGON ? Elements of phoenician religion can be found in hebrew culture of the old and new testament. In the book of Jonah, G-d makes a gr8 fish to swollow up Jonah as an initiation or rite of passage. This fish is the hebrew word DAG akin to the phoenician DAGON. Many references are made to *fish* by jesus in the new testament. Christ is even known by the fish symbol in christendom.
Dagon comes to us in the Roman and greek pantheon as NEPTUNE and POSEIDON, gods of the sea. The new testament writers used the term sea in their writings to symbolize the GENTILE WORLD. It seems the nt writers placated to the IDOL WORSHIPPERS of the gentile world to include their hosts and gods into the greater fold.
Things to ponder on.
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Post by kAHANyAH on Mar 23, 2004 13:43:35 GMT -5
The hebrews did acknowledge the "HOSTS OF HEAVEN" and these "HOSTS OF HEAVEN" were the entire known pantheon of the gentile world. What I have come to know is the hebrews took gr8 care to incorporate these gods of the nations into their degrees of ascension leading up to the God of Abraham , Isaack and Yaquub. Many claim the jews rob and steal from the heathen cultures. This is far from truth. The science of the religion of all nations from the olden days are all WRITTEN IN THE STARS [ASTER]. No culture has genuine claim to these stories. We all borrow just as the jews borrowed egyptian knowledge prior to the exodus - Exd 12:35 And the children of Israel did according to the word of Moses; and they borrowed of the Egyptians jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment:BORROWING AINT STEALING IS IT ?  |
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Post by KnaxemDead on Mar 24, 2004 21:24:07 GMT -5
Yes there is insinuation in the New Testament of Dagon relation to Y'shuwa as the Messiah. There is information already published concerning those exact connections, easly found online. As far as the Old Testament, which if you don't already know was not written until in or around 777 BC, during that time Israelites as Hyksos (Sheperd Kings) followed after many of the customs of Egypt, along with adoption of other canaanite myths. Israelites of the Bible would keep resorting back to worshipping other GODS, as oppose to Yaweh.
Lev 18:3 After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye walk in their ordinances.
Well as you already know they the Israelites did exact opposite of what's stated in Leviticus 18:3. It's not until you get into Book attributed to Nehemiah that, they discovered a scroll written in script of Jew's tongue (Ambre-sacred Hieroglyphs). Yet none except a scribe could translate it for them. It was said to be the Laws, which were to be taken as Commandents received by Moses himself. It was instituited by the King, and YHWH who was forgetten was now remembered. Keep in mind the writers of OT written these stories on papyrus, from centuries of retelling it with slight variations depending on regions the Bible in 333 BC was the edited by Ezra.
How we read it today is due to when Ezra canonized it into T'nakh. Hebrews (Apiru) didn't have a culture. So I asked 1dell in a discussion on Paltalk, to produce Abraham's Torah.
Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
In Hebrew the word used for 'Laws' is Torah. From myself, studing the T'nakh in Syraic and Aramaic I know it's making a clear distinctions between what a Charge, Commandment, Statue, Ordinances, and laws are. So if he would please produce for me what each of those are pertaining to Abraham? How many of them they were?
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Post by kAHANyAH on Mar 25, 2004 10:12:17 GMT -5
Lets look at the scripture in question in its hebraic form... Ber'shiyth 26.5 eqeb ashr'shemi abr'ham b'qoliy wa'shamar mishmerethiy mitsvothiy chuqqothiy wa'torathiyEnglish [by kAH] : Genesis 26.5 Because that Abraham hears [obeyed] in my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.There are actually 5 adjurations Abraham fulfilled and all 5 are archtypals pertaining to degrees of communication between elohim and mankind. These 5 are the following: shemi b'qowliy [hear/obey in my voice] shamar mishmerethiy [keep my charge] shamar mitsvothiy [keep my commandments] shamar chuqqothiy [keep my statutes] shamar torathiy [keep my laws] These 5 are re-affirmed as the 5 books of moshe; pentateuch. also the 5 senses used in communication of man to interpret the physical environment [cipher] of the elohim. The five senses are : SIGHT, SMELL, TASTE, TOUCH, HEARING. There are other references of five postulates which can be correlated with the above scripture. Peace. Yes there is insinuation in the New Testament of Dagon relation to Y'shuwa as the Messiah. There is information already published concerning those exact connections, easly found online. As far as the Old Testament, which if you don't already know was not written until in or around 777 BC, during that time Israelites as Hyksos (Sheperd Kings) followed after many of the customs of Egypt, along with adoption of other canaanite myths. Israelites of the Bible would keep resorting back to worshipping other GODS, as oppose to Yaweh. Lev 18:3 After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye walk in their ordinances. Well as you already know they the Israelites did exact opposite of what's stated in Leviticus 18:3. It's not until you get into Book attributed to Nehemiah that, they discovered a scroll written in script of Jew's tongue (Ambre-sacred Hieroglyphs). Yet none except a scribe could translate it for them. It was said to be the Laws, which were to be taken as Commandents received by Moses himself. It was instituited by the King, and YHWH who was forgetten was now remembered. Keep in mind the writers of OT written these stories on papyrus, from centuries of retelling it with slight variations depending on regions the Bible in 333 BC was the edited by Ezra. How we read it today is due to when Ezra canonized it into T'nakh. Hebrews (Apiru) didn't have a culture. So I asked 1dell in a discussion on Paltalk, to produce Abraham's Torah. Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. In Hebrew the word used for 'Laws' is Torah. From myself, studing the T'nakh in Syraic and Aramaic I know it's making a clear distinctions between what a Charge, Commandment, Statue, Ordinances, and laws are. So if he would please produce for me what each of those are pertaining to Abraham? How many of them they were? |
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Post by kAHANyAH on Mar 25, 2004 10:33:07 GMT -5
Abraham's fulfillment and mastery of the 5 degrees of communication is the BAPHOMET.  |
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Post by KnaxemDead on Mar 25, 2004 12:05:31 GMT -5
Baphomet is later innovocation, doesn't apply to any of the ancient cultures ascribed to Abraham. It was a cute correlation to the T'nakh, but there is absolutely no creditablity to Abraham having received same exact laws before Moses for him to have kept them all.
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Post by kAHANyAH on Mar 25, 2004 13:08:13 GMT -5
Baphomet is mere symbolism of a particular knowledge known in the ancient world. The term baphomet and its symbol may not have been used during moshe's time but the concept was definitely known. Your conflict is in dates and times and geneologies. Ex., which came first the chicken or the egg ? And thats a stumbling block for many because it really doesnt matter which came first when you're looking at the entire cipher. Eliphaz Levi captured the particular mystery system in his baphomet drawing. And you too can create a drawing capturing the elements of a system of knowledge. WE CAN ALL THINK OUT THE BOX. Regarding Abraham... The patri'arch had knowledge of what Moshe delivered unto the children of Israel. There was always an oral trandition with the hebrews as well as other cultures. The formality comes about when things must be done in writing and Moshe took advantage of this formal communication of the mysteries when he transmitted g-d's words to the people via tablets. Do not think the bible does not allude to oral trandition , beginning wit the great grand father Adam who knew many levels of instruction of G-d. And please understand this, I for one do not go out of my way trying to validate bible characters , places and dates . It's beyond that. The stories is al'chemy or archtypals contructed in story formats as guides to help us better understand the multi universe that exist. BTW..., wasn't trying to make a cute correlation. Just stating the facts - the parallelism is there.  Baphomet is later innovocation, doesn't apply to any of the ancient cultures ascribed to Abraham. It was a cute correlation to the T'nakh, but there is absolutely no creditablity to Abraham having received same exact laws before Moses for him to have kept them all. |
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Post by KnaxemDead on Mar 25, 2004 14:08:56 GMT -5
Something that My brother Dr. Ashby, teaches and what I also concur with is three stages of 'Religious Pratice'
Myth - Ritual - Mystism (Mysteries)
First level - a human being learns the stories and traditions of religion.
Second level- rituals are learned and praticed.
Third level - a spiritual aspirant is led to actually go beyond myths and rituals and to attain the ultimate goal of religion.
You cannot sidestep any of these and go straight to the Third Level which is dealing directly with mysteries (initiations) and say that you have full apprehesion of what is conveyed in Rituals and Myths. I've witnessed within these forums people who cannot discern between Reality and ELU-siveness of this world. To have said something as ridiculous as "The patri'arch (Abraham) had knowledge of what Moshe delivered unto the children of Israel. " Abraham in the bible lived long time before Moshe was on the scene. Then to continue with, "There was always an oral tradition with the hebrews as well as other cultures" is that an excuse why you cannot produce the Torah Abraham received? How are you distingushing the Hebrews from any Egyptian, Shumerian or Canaanite people? You can't because they were not a distinct group, set apart from any of these three cultures? Everything they have was how you put it 'BORROWED'. So you should have left the question for 1dell, instead of your feeble attempt to speak outside of your element.
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Post by Ralph on Mar 25, 2004 15:52:43 GMT -5
Abraham's fulfillment and mastery of the 5 degrees of communication is the BAPHOMET. The pentacle's use in the City Seal of Jerusalem has led to its confusion with the variously titled Seal, Shield, or Star of Solomon. Early Christians attributed the pentagram to the Five Stigmata of Christ or the doctrine of the Trinity plus that of the two natures of Christ. According to Biedermann, from then until mediaeval times, it was a lesser-used Christian symbol. [1] Its form implied truth, religious mysticism and the work of Creator. Roman Emperor Constantine I, after his defeat of Maxentius and the issuance of the Edict of Milan in 312CE, ascribed his success to his conversion to Christianity and incorporated the pentagram, one point down, into his seal and amulet. [12] Webber tells us that "...the five-pointed star signifies our Lord's Epiphany" and that it is a symbol of the "revelation of the Christ Child to the Gentile wisemen." He warns that "It must not be used as a Christmas symbol." He also defined it as the Star of Jesse, or of Jacob and assigns it the meaning of Heavenly Wisdom. He illustrates it with one point up but doesn't define the alignment in his text. [2] Hume notes that "It was at one time used by the Greek Christians in liu of the cross at the beginning of inscriptions...." [3] Templar gravestone, Tomar, Portugal Although other authors have claimed the five pointed star as a Christian symbol, describing it as the "Jesus' star" or the "Star in the East", a review of Christian art from the early Mediaeval period to the Renaissance will reveal few examples. [4] Becker refers to the pentagram as a symbol of Christ as Alpha and Omega, and as a symbol of the five wounds of Christ. The five-pointed star is also defined as a symbol of Christ, "the bright and morning star": and, inverted, one point down, it represents the descent of Christ — i.e., His Incarnation. [5] An early depiction, reproduced by Eckhardt, from a carving on a wall in the Baptistory of St. John at Split in Yugoslavia is dated from the eleventh century. The site was originally the Temple of Aescielapius, a god of medicine. [6] (Encyclopedia Britannica,vol. 11, p. 107, terms it a Temple of Jupiter.) Baptistory of St. John [6] While depictions of the five pointed star or pentagram equating it with Jesus are rare, it should be also noted that they are non-existent in any depiction of the Devil or Satan before Éliphas Lévi's nineteenth century Baphomet. [7] There are a number of examples of the pentagram found on buildings of a religious or semi-religious nature in Europe. [13] Notable examples can be seen on gravestones in the Claustro da Lavagem in the Convento at Tomar, Portugal, the monastery of Ravna, Bulgaria and the Church of All Saints at Kilham, Humberside, Yorkshire, England, which incorporates the symbol on the columns which support the Norman doorway. [10] It is indented on the gateposts of the churchyard of S. Peter's, Walworth, England, built in 1824. [11] There are also a number of examples in the sketchbook of thirteenth century stonemason, Villard de Honnecourt. [8] |
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Post by kAHANyAH on Mar 25, 2004 18:33:08 GMT -5
KnaxemDead, its like this - THE STORIES IN THE BIBLE ARE ARCHTYPALS representing mankind in real time, transition into the hereafter, then the afterlife. That is how I comprehend the ancient hebrew scripts. Also the "speaking out of my element" remark. Well dude, what can I say... C'EST LA C'EST LA  . Something that My brother Dr. Ashby, teaches and what I also concur with is three stages of 'Religious Pratice' Myth - Ritual - Mystism (Mysteries) First level - a human being learns the stories and traditions of religion. Second level- rituals are learned and praticed. Third level - a spiritual aspirant is led to actually go beyond myths and rituals and to attain the ultimate goal of religion. You cannot sidestep any of these and go straight to the Third Level which is dealing directly with mysteries (initiations) and say that you have full apprehesion of what is conveyed in Rituals and Myths. I've witnessed within these forums people who cannot discern between Reality and ELU-siveness of this world. To have said something as ridiculous as "The patri'arch (Abraham) had knowledge of what Moshe delivered unto the children of Israel. " Abraham in the bible lived long time before Moshe was on the scene. Then to continue with, "There was always an oral tradition with the hebrews as well as other cultures" is that an excuse why you cannot produce the Torah Abraham received? How are you distingushing the Hebrews from any Egyptian, Shumerian or Canaanite people? You can't because they were not a distinct group, set apart from any of these three cultures? Everything they have was how you put it 'BORROWED'. So you should have left the question for 1dell, instead of your feeble attempt to speak outside of your element. |
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Post by kAHANyAH on Mar 25, 2004 18:36:56 GMT -5
Very informative Ralph. Thnx for the contribution. Lets keep building! The pentacle's use in the City Seal of Jerusalem has led to its confusion with the variously titled Seal, Shield, or Star of Solomon. Early Christians attributed the pentagram to the Five Stigmata of Christ or the doctrine of the Trinity plus that of the two natures of Christ. According to Biedermann, from then until mediaeval times, it was a lesser-used Christian symbol. [1] Its form implied truth, religious mysticism and the work of Creator. Roman Emperor Constantine I, after his defeat of Maxentius and the issuance of the Edict of Milan in 312CE, ascribed his success to his conversion to Christianity and incorporated the pentagram, one point down, into his seal and amulet. [12] Webber tells us that "...the five-pointed star signifies our Lord's Epiphany" and that it is a symbol of the "revelation of the Christ Child to the Gentile wisemen." He warns that "It must not be used as a Christmas symbol." He also defined it as the Star of Jesse, or of Jacob and assigns it the meaning of Heavenly Wisdom. He illustrates it with one point up but doesn't define the alignment in his text. [2] Hume notes that "It was at one time used by the Greek Christians in liu of the cross at the beginning of inscriptions...." [3] Templar gravestone, Tomar, Portugal Although other authors have claimed the five pointed star as a Christian symbol, describing it as the "Jesus' star" or the "Star in the East", a review of Christian art from the early Mediaeval period to the Renaissance will reveal few examples. [4] Becker refers to the pentagram as a symbol of Christ as Alpha and Omega, and as a symbol of the five wounds of Christ. The five-pointed star is also defined as a symbol of Christ, "the bright and morning star": and, inverted, one point down, it represents the descent of Christ — i.e., His Incarnation. [5] An early depiction, reproduced by Eckhardt, from a carving on a wall in the Baptistory of St. John at Split in Yugoslavia is dated from the eleventh century. The site was originally the Temple of Aescielapius, a god of medicine. [6] (Encyclopedia Britannica,vol. 11, p. 107, terms it a Temple of Jupiter.) Baptistory of St. John [6] While depictions of the five pointed star or pentagram equating it with Jesus are rare, it should be also noted that they are non-existent in any depiction of the Devil or Satan before Éliphas Lévi's nineteenth century Baphomet. [7] There are a number of examples of the pentagram found on buildings of a religious or semi-religious nature in Europe. [13] Notable examples can be seen on gravestones in the Claustro da Lavagem in the Convento at Tomar, Portugal, the monastery of Ravna, Bulgaria and the Church of All Saints at Kilham, Humberside, Yorkshire, England, which incorporates the symbol on the columns which support the Norman doorway. [10] It is indented on the gateposts of the churchyard of S. Peter's, Walworth, England, built in 1824. [11] There are also a number of examples in the sketchbook of thirteenth century stonemason, Villard de Honnecourt. [8] |
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Post by Ralph on Mar 25, 2004 19:16:15 GMT -5
Very informative Ralph. Thnx for the contribution. Lets keep building! Kah, I am learning also!! |
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Post by kAHANyAH on Mar 25, 2004 19:19:24 GMT -5
EACH ONE TEACH ONE! Kah, I am learning also!! |
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