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Post by kAHANyAH on Mar 7, 2004 20:36:53 GMT -5
A'ight Im gettin a feel for what the paltalk chat was on. Derrick, what prophecy did "Jesus" fail to accomplish and fulfill ?
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Post by 1dell on Mar 7, 2004 21:09:18 GMT -5
Let me give you one Kah: Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Mar 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power. Luk 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God. Thats about it, but what happened was I had to explain to him what Taste of Death mean and how it's used: Jhn 8:52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. And when I was explaining it to him all he kept doing was saying I was babbling and just hurling insults at me in the room but wants to come here claiming he is the victim and I am picking on him and calling him names. I really wish I had a thumb sucking Icon right now. And satiyah, sweety I am sorry but your husband drew first blood insulting him. I know you dont like to see him insulted but you MUST be unbiased and see what your eyes are telling you, this man has hurled insult after insult at me. He got what he gave. A'ight Im gettin a feel for what the paltalk chat was on. Derrick, what prophecy did "Jesus" fail to accomplish and fulfill ? |
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Post by KnaxemDead on Mar 7, 2004 23:10:28 GMT -5
Before I respond with a Rebuttal I would like to offer you the oppurtunity to modify your statement. Just skimming over it, I caught this.
"STILL we have one last issue to address the death of herod. Sources reveal that according to the Jupiter Retrograde Ishua was born around 6 or 7 AD. Herod Dies in 4 A.D. sources say. Dude, they weren't in Egypt but a hot minute for maybe a year or 2 max. "
I will get to the rest of it tomorrow evening, when I get in.
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Post by 1dell on Mar 8, 2004 12:04:16 GMT -5
No thats what I said and I am sticking with it. I have cited several resources and thats what I am sticking with. The only typo in this would be B.C. versus A.D. which is an obvious mistake. Hell aint no secret, I likes to fit me in about at least 10 typos per post  <--this icon REALLY should have a gold tooph. But as far as the dates and thangs, I am sticking with that. According to history (and I have checked several sources) The new Herod took over supposedly at 4 B.C. and the return of Messiah to Ysra'al was contingent upon the death of Herod, at which time the Angel appeared to Yosef and they returned. Giving you the benefit of the doubt: How long do you think it would take to get from Egypt to Nazaret? 10/11 Years? They were travelling on donkey backs and foot and thangs. My question is, how much of the egyptian mysteries do you think a 2,3,4 year old could learn? What priests do you know would have him chillin in the temple teachin him? Do you think regular people had access like that? What language was egypt speaking at the time? Do you think Yosef and nem spoke egyptian? From the histories there was a judaistic community where they saught refuge. Because before the babylonian captivity some tribes fled to egypt and set up a jewish community there. We can tell that Yosef was a devot man seeing how he didn't want to shame Miriam and revealing her pregnancy, not to mention Miriam herself was a daughter of Levi and of the priestly caste. the Knowledge of Egypt was an abonmination to the hebrews: Lev 18:3 After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye walk in their ordinances. Lev 18:4 Ye shall do my judgments, and keep mine ordinances, to walk therein: I [am] the LORD your God. Lev 18:5 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I [am] the LORD. So really what sense does it make for them to STEAL anything from egypt when it was against the Most Highs wishes? I mean we saw what happened to them when they TRIED to go the way of egyptians with the golden calf thing. They stere staunchly rebuked. IHaWaH didn't play that. Like I have said a thousand times before, If ANYONE can claim to have been Ysra'al's tutors it could be the Midianites. Moshe spend 40 years with Yetro the High Priest. The Midianites were offspring from the Loins of Abraham and Keturah (his wife after sarah died) They certainly kept the ways of IHaWaH and taught Moshe about his roots. What is moor, why does there need to be ANY STEALING whatsoever? I mean do we here not all acknowledge that there are extra terrestrials among us? Do we not all recognize that the God of the bible is an extra-terrestrial? Do we not recognize that this Extra Terrestrial and his posse would touch down on earth and interact with human beings? In the scriptures it is recorded that this Deity would PERSONALLY interact with the young hebrew nation and guide them and gave him his laws. In just about every religion we see where some extra terrestrial had a conversation with a man who was the leader the sect. Why are you people trying to rob and discredit the hebrews of their experience? I don't get it. The bible talks about how IHaWaH went to other nations before the Hebrews to give them laws or how he turned the nations over to other gods or how specific angels that belonged to him were over or controlling other nations. This could very well be the reason why when it come down to it, the moral standard in many religions are the same, but only in HOW their deities are worshipped vary, or their daily customs and habits. There was no need to steal anything when you had direct access to IHaWaH and could speak to him directly. oh goodness, I guess I just babbled and stuff but someoone will get something out of it. Before I respond with a Rebuttal I would like to offer you the oppurtunity to modify your statement. Just skimming over it, I caught this. "STILL we have one last issue to address the death of herod. Sources reveal that according to the Jupiter Retrograde Ishua was born around 6 or 7 AD. Herod Dies in 4 A.D. sources say. Dude, they weren't in Egypt but a hot minute for maybe a year or 2 max. " I will get to the rest of it tomorrow evening, when I get in. |
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Post by kAHANyAH on Mar 8, 2004 13:03:35 GMT -5
I am goin to chime in on this free for all! . It is my understanding Jesus spent approx. 2 yrs. in aegipt. And I base this on the following script., ... Matt 2.16, Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men. The emphasis is in bold face and also the underline. The elapse time from the point of Jesus' fleeing into aegipt and the slaughter of children ages 2 and under is a 2 yr period. You can see that in the underline portion of the scripture. A period of 2 yrs went by from the point of Herod consulting the wise men and not being able to find Jesus, thus becoming fustrated and enacting the edict to kill children 2 yrs and under. Why do you think he chose the age 2 ? because 2 yrs had gone by and he had yet to find the new born babe jesus. When you continue reading the story it then introduces his [herod] death and the return of Jesus. so it is assumed shortly after the edict Herod passed away. Now, unless a 2 yr old kid can learn knowledge equivalent to 77 trillion years - it just aint jibing.  If there were anything of worth Jesus learned as a toddler during his sojourn in aegipt its how to walk and stop sucking the thumb. MUHAHAHAHAH LOL!!!! ;D |
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Post by CoUrTnEy on Mar 8, 2004 13:26:05 GMT -5
1dell.. just wanted to let you know that even though i haven't commented on this thread lately i AM watching it.. lots of good info- thanks a million |
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Post by KnaxemDead on Mar 10, 2004 23:12:54 GMT -5
Was Jesus taken to Egypt or Nazareth? Jesus was taken to Egypt after his birth. Matthew 2:14 ... "When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt."
Authorized King James Version Jesus was taken to Nazareth after his birth.
Luke Chapter 2:39... "And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth."
Authorized King James Version Jesus birth in Bethlehem (Mat 2:6) The Holy family's journey to Egypt (Mat 2:14), King Herod's massacre of innocent children of Bethlehem (Mat 2:18), Then Joseph decision to relocate to Nazareth (Mat 2:23). Why were these significant events left out of The Gospel of Luke, Mark and John. How could they just blatantly miss mentioning these if they did indeed happen? Matthew’s storytelling methods of Jesus birth and exodus to Egypt isn’t factual but Mythological*1 and based on earlier misinterpreted signs and symbols. Not to mention Matthew (name given to anonymous NT writer) was appeasing to the Jews fabricating Jesus out to be like Moses. Luke records Jesus birth 13 years later than Matthew. For Luke 2:1-3 to be a made true these events would need to have occurred. - Herod would had to have died in 4BC
- then his very own son Archelaus to be dethroned in (6AD)
- for Cyrenius to be governor of Syria in (7AD) to institute the first taxation according to order of Caesar.
, THIS TOTALLY INCONSISENT WITH MATTHEW, AN EARLIER ACCOUNT OF JESUS BIRTH WHICH HAS JESUS BEING BORN WHEN HEROD WAS STILL ALIVE.Luke 2:1… “And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.”<br>Luke 2:2… ([And] this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) Luke 2:3… “And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.”<br> So if Jesus (according to Matthew) was born in 6BC that is 2 years before Herod’s death in 4BC, about time Luke’s version was written and circulating, saying he was born in 6 or 7AD, then Matthew’s Jesus would be 12 or 13 years at the time Luke has him being born. When I extended myself out of kindness to 1dell for him to rectify his statement that Herod died in 4AD which placed Jesus birth at 6 or 7 AD. Is to say Herod was already dead, which negates the fact that Herod could have ever known about Jesus to want him killed (Matt 2:13) It totally doesn’t make sense. Because he, 1dell was so eager to respond, searching my post to find slightest fault in what I gave. So much pride that even when prompted to correct it, he doesn’t but he would rather be humiliated then to check himself. That’s not arrogance that is IGNORANCE. Yet nobody else in this forum caught that and told 1dell that his statement didn’t make sense. Just because someone quotes from “a source”, didn’t mean he, himself was credible oand proficient in this subject. All these particular sources rely on the Jewish Historian 'Joseph Flavius' to establish New Testament Chronology especially for the death of Herod, and even the first taxation in Judea (Syria).  |
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Post by kAHANyAH on Mar 11, 2004 10:01:22 GMT -5
Knaxemdead, Jesus went to Egipt and then to Galilee, city of Nazareth. The book of luke picks up the account of the journey of the son of God from the point of his return to Galilee from Egipt. It doesn't mean Luke is claiming Jesus went to Nazareth instead of Egipt. He is merely telling his version of the events from the point of Nazareth and thereafter. The way your post is presented to us makes it seem Luke and Matthew are contradictive regarding where Jesus went when the first warning of the angel was given to Joseph. That would be far from the truth. Matthew took gr8er care in detailing the account of Joseph's family fleeing into egipt, then the other authors of the gospel. [same thing with the other gospels. They begin their telling of events from the sojourning in Nazareth] Was Jesus taken to Egypt or Nazareth? Jesus was taken to Egypt after his birth. Matthew 2:14 ... "When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt."
Authorized King James Version Jesus was taken to Nazareth after his birth.
Luke Chapter 2:39... "And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth."
Authorized King James Version Jesus birth in Bethlehem (Mat 2:6) The Holy family's journey to Egypt (Mat 2:14), King Herod's massacre of innocent children of Bethlehem (Mat 2:18), Then Joseph decision to relocate to Nazareth (Mat 2:23). Why were these significant events left out of The Gospel of Luke, Mark and John. How could they just blatantly miss mentioning these if they did indeed happen? Matthew’s storytelling methods of Jesus birth and exodus to Egypt isn’t factual but Mythological*1 and based on earlier misinterpreted signs and symbols. Not to mention Matthew (name given to anonymous NT writer) was appeasing to the Jews fabricating Jesus out to be like Moses. Luke records Jesus birth 13 years later than Matthew. For Luke 2:1-3 to be a made true these events would need to have occurred. - Herod would had to have died in 4BC
- then his very own son Archelaus to be dethroned in (6AD)
- for Cyrenius to be governor of Syria in (7AD) to institute the first taxation according to order of Caesar.
, THIS TOTALLY INCONSISENT WITH MATTHEW, AN EARLIER ACCOUNT OF JESUS BIRTH WHICH HAS JESUS BEING BORN WHEN HEROD WAS STILL ALIVE.Luke 2:1… “And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.”<br>Luke 2:2… ([And] this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) Luke 2:3… “And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.”<br> So if Jesus (according to Matthew) was born in 6BC that is 2 years before Herod’s death in 4BC, about time Luke’s version was written and circulating, saying he was born in 6 or 7AD, then Matthew’s Jesus would be 12 or 13 years at the time Luke has him being born. When I extended myself out of kindness to 1dell for him to rectify his statement that Herod died in 4AD which placed Jesus birth at 6 or 7 AD. Is to say Herod was already dead, which negates the fact that Herod could have ever known about Jesus to want him killed (Matt 2:13) It totally doesn’t make sense. Because he, 1dell was so eager to respond, searching my post to find slightest fault in what I gave. So much pride that even when prompted to correct it, he doesn’t but he would rather be humiliated then to check himself. That’s not arrogance that is IGNORANCE. Yet nobody else in this forum caught that and told 1dell that his statement didn’t make sense. Just because someone quotes from “a source”, didn’t mean he, himself was credible oand proficient in this subject. All these particular sources rely on the Jewish Historian 'Joseph Flavius' to establish New Testament Chronology especially for the death of Herod, and even the first taxation in Judea (Syria). |
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Post by KnaxemDead on Mar 11, 2004 10:32:07 GMT -5
MYTHOLOGY*1 (We have detailed knowledge of the original languages and contents of each book of teh Bible, and for most of them it is possible to describe the circumstances that occasioned the writing. We now know that there were many different responses to the Teachings of Jesus, Groups formed around them, but then went different ways depending upon their mix of peoples, social histories, and discussions about the Teachings of Jesus and how they were to be interpreted and applied, New Testament was either written anonymously and later assigned to a person of the past or written later as a pseudonym for some person thought to have been important for earliest period. Albeit, over the course of the second and third centuries, centrist Christians were able to create the impression of a singular, monolinear history of the Christian Church. They did so by carefully selecting, collecting and arranging anonymous and pseudonymous writings assigned to figures at the beginning of the Christian time. As they imaged it, this history was foretod by the prophets of the Old Testament, inaugurated by Jesus and his sacrifice for the sins of the world, established by the apostles in their missions, and confirmed by the bishops in their loyalty to the teachings of that illustrious tradition. Because all the NT writings were now regarded as written by apostles and their associates, the differences among their views of Christian beginnings were effectively earsed. In the Centrist Christian imagination, the four gospels merged into AMALGAM of one gospel sotry, and the letters of Paul and the other apostles were read as "witnesses"to these dramatic events that inaugurated the Christian time. This means that the impression modern readers have of the NT as a charter document for Christianity, a kind of constitution written in concert by a college or congress of apostles. The problem is that this charter was created for the Fourth-Century church by means of literary fictions. It is neither anauthentic account of Christian beginnings nor an accurate rehearsal of the history of the empire church. Historians of religion would call it myth. It is difficult for modern Christians to accept, early Christians engaged in mythmaking. The usual connotations of the term MYTH are almost entirely negative. And then it is used to describe the content of the NT gospels there is invariably a negative remark. That is because, in distinction from most MYTHOLOGIES that begin with a "once upon a time," the Christian myth is set in historical time and place. It seems to demand the belief that the events of the gospel story really happened. And that means that the story cannot be "myth.") It may help to note - That mythmaking is a normal and necessary social activity
- that early Christian mythmaking was due more to borrowing and rearranging myths taken for granted in the cultures of context than to firsthand speculation,
- that myths they came up with made eminent sense, not only for their times and circumstances, but also for the social experiments in which they were invested
So what does the Christian Myth imply about Jesus?
Jesus is an embodiement of particular Egyptian Mysteries, epitomized as egyptian KRST (Christ). Glorified in this world and the next as SAHU (SIA -Divine Utterance and HU-Divine Knowledge) transmitted by Essenes as the GNOSTICS. That is the HEQA - implied as science in the WORD OF GOD. Jesus was the word made flesh in the bible that is to say the WORD MADE TRUTH. ETERNAL LIFE was to come by one who kept the sayings (the WORD). Not by him (mysteries) being crucified and him raising the third day. Many will not get to that level of comprehension over night, it has to be moreso experienced (initiated) then to read the bible take it literally and only obtain height of a moral code from it. Luk 8:10 "And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand."
God is revealed when you REALIZE the MYSTERY!1Corinthian 14:2 in part .."but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries." Lastbut not least, our duty is written out, Master9 will appreciate this one. 1Corinthian 4:1 "Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God." |
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Post by KnaxemDead on Mar 11, 2004 10:47:57 GMT -5
I appreciate your reply Kah, however, is that all you got from that. Why didn't you address that Luke mentions Jesus's birth as being 12 to 13 years later, oppose to Matthew who sets the birth of Jesus while Herod was still alive. You didn't bother to see that or you left that alone. I am only left to assume, either you don't know how to address it, or you just turning a blind eye to it, seeing only what you want to believe. You honestly thought you were on to something, especially agreeing with 1dell not being proficient your damn self.I expected a better argument with presentation of facts, unlike 1dell who didn't bother to rectify if it was BC or AD, which makes a huge difference. So try your post again.
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Post by KnaxemDead on Mar 11, 2004 12:01:45 GMT -5
Kah please re-read Gospel According to Luke, chapter 2 in it's entirety. It's short. When you get to Luke 2:39 And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth.
The verses prior inform you the reader which performances they carried out according to the law (T'nakh).
Kah writes: Luke picks up the account of the journey of the son of God from the point of his return to Galilee from Egipt.
That could not be further from the truth, Luke actually gives an account of Jesus's birth with two's weeks after then their immediate departure back to Nazareth, hence the reason of looking for an INN to Lodge in the first place most of them being crowded already. Luke would not have mentioned Herod or Archelaus, because 'in those days' as mention in verse 1 was the year 6-7AD, Herod was already dead (4BC) and Archelaus dethroned (6 AD).
That was a layman response you gave. I didn't say that these gospels are contradictary. First off, Luke's account could be mentioning a different Y'shua's birth which is not uncommon. There are many doublets throughout the T'nakh. Especially 'two creation' stories right in the first few chapters of Genesis. That goes into writers copying from two distinct sources as they try to recouncil them. Especially since there are those reported to be doing similar acts of Y'shua even the same name. I am not going to give you a way out of this. Your wrong. Just be graceful and admit it.
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Post by kAHANyAH on Mar 11, 2004 13:19:56 GMT -5
What was there to address ? I already explained that in my first post of this thread. Herod died shortly after Jesus attained the age of 2. Luke's mentioning of Jesus' age [12 yrs old] during the annual feast is because obviously the thinking of the jews back then centered around the spiritual number 12 [12 tribes] and the preparation of the coming of age; becoming an adult and son of the torah. So he wanted the number 12 to have an importance and significance in the mind of the hebrew reader. What does Luke speaking on an event (annual feast) when Jesus was 12 yrs old have to do with the death of Herod ? I am not getting your point here. All the other stuff in your posting involve emotional banter and these days present, I usually dont address them. Peace. I appreciate your reply Kah, however, is that all you got from that. Why didn't you address that Luke mentions Jesus's birth as being 12 to 13 years later, oppose to Matthew who sets the birth of Jesus while Herod was still alive. You didn't bother to see that or you left that alone. I am only left to assume, either you don't know how to address it, or you just turning a blind eye to it, seeing only what you want to believe. You honestly thought you were on to something, especially agreeing with 1dell not being proficient your damn self.I expected a better argument with presentation of facts, unlike 1dell who didn't bother to rectify if it was BC or AD, which makes a huge difference. So try your post again. |
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Post by kAHANyAH on Mar 11, 2004 13:30:55 GMT -5
check this out, I agree with you, the bible has two creation versions intertwined . But that is to be expected. The book is based on TWO [bi = 2, OT-NT,]. But when you say something like this -> "Was Jesus taken to Egypt or Nazareth" ? what did you expect a reader to think ? Youre asking the question - which place did he goto, as if to say he could not have gone to both (which btw... he did). SEE HOW YOU'RE INFERRING THERE IS CONTRADICTION in the gospel with that question ? Peace brother. Kah please re-read Gospel According to Luke, chapter 2 in it's entirety. It's short. When you get to Luke 2:39 And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth. The verses prior inform you the reader which performances they carried out according to the law (T'nakh). Kah writes: Luke picks up the account of the journey of the son of God from the point of his return to Galilee from Egipt.
That could not be further from the truth, Luke actually gives an account of Jesus's birth with two's weeks after then their immediate departure back to Nazareth, hence the reason of looking for an INN to Lodge in the first place most of them being crowded already. Luke would not have mentioned Herod or Archelaus, because 'in those days' as mention in verse 1 was the year 6-7AD, Herod was already dead (4BC) and Archelaus dethroned (6 AD). That was a layman response you gave. I didn't say that these gospels are contradictary. First off, Luke's account could be mentioning a different Y'shua's birth which is not uncommon. There are many doublets throughout the T'nakh. Especially 'two creation' stories right in the first few chapters of Genesis. That goes into writers copying from two distinct sources as they try to recouncil them. Especially since there are those reported to be doing similar acts of Y'shua even the same name. I am not going to give you a way out of this. Your wrong. Just be graceful and admit it. |
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Post by CoUrTnEy on Mar 11, 2004 13:49:24 GMT -5
i wanna add my two cents in here.. i want to introduce a little common sense here.. lets put aside all the puzzles, parable, etc.. lets look at a hypothetic situation.. me and kah witness an accident.. it is highly possible and very likely that our stories will be simliar but there will be parts of our story that will not coincide.. he may have seen it from a different angle than i did .. he may have seen something i wasn't able to and vice versa... that doesn't mean one is more accurate than the other.. we are just looking from different perspectives. that also doesn't account for mistakes made as humans.. things forgotten or mis-spoken.. ok there you have it- my two cents check this out, I agree with you, the bible has two creation versions intertwined . But that is to be expected. The book is based on TWO [bi = 2, OT-NT,]. But when you say something like this -> "Was Jesus taken to Egypt or Nazareth" ? what did you expect a reader to think ? Youre asking the question - which place did he goto, as if to say he could not have gone to both (which btw... he did). SEE HOW YOU'RE INFERRING THERE IS CONTRADICTION in the gospel with that question ? Peace brother. |
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Post by 1dell on Mar 11, 2004 15:03:15 GMT -5
cOURTNey an Kah, I appreciate your efforts. but there are issues that have not been addressed and derek is not being answered the way he should. That will build pride on his part.
Dates must be consulted, Greek must be retranslated and all sorts of things brought forward to show him how wrong he is. I mean post after post all he does is show how much of an amateur he is in dealing with this book.
Have either of you noticed how I have asked him questions that he purposely avoids? I have asked him MANY questions that he fails to answer. lol It figures.
I guess he thinks if he waits 3 and 4 days to respond I would have in that time forgotten. Have you all noticed how I post about 6 messages and then have to wait 3 and 4 days before he even comes back with one or 2 responses? And in that he avoids where I have proven him wrong AND the questions I ask in the process. LOL. So typical.
So sit back and relax you 2. I will address this THOROUGHLY! Because derek is just as wrong as can be and if anyone with a right mind is paying attention they can see this man knows NOTHING about the bible and it's most pathetic.
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